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Election predictions: The sequel


16 Jun 2017 7:56AM
I hope this enquiry gets a swift and just result. If reports are correct and they used PE board on the facade someone - or several - need to be held accountable not just for that but the decisions that led to that - I feel sure there is more that will come to light on this in the coming months.
lobsterboy Plus
17 15.0k 13 United Kingdom
16 Jun 2017 9:20AM

Quote:Well Sadiq Khan got a rough ride when he turned up at Grenfell Tower. Presumably TM's minders didn't want to risk an incident.
But, I agree, it doesn't look good.



It looks awful, can you imagine Cameron, Blair, thatcher doing that? All of them would at least try to give the impression of caring. I guess when the only thing you have ever cared about is your own advancement, caring about others is tricky to fake.
lobsterboy Plus
17 15.0k 13 United Kingdom
16 Jun 2017 9:21AM

Quote:If reports are correct and they used PE board on the facade ...


What is PE board and why is it a bad thing ?
saltireblue Plus
11 12.2k 76 Norway
16 Jun 2017 9:43AM

Quote:
Quote:If reports are correct and they used PE board on the facade ...


What is PE board and why is it a bad thing ?


The cladding used was two layers of aluminium with a polyethylene core. PE has a very low melting (combustion?) point - as low as 80c in some versions.
lobsterboy Plus
17 15.0k 13 United Kingdom
16 Jun 2017 9:47AM
Thanks - that dosn't sound like a good thing.
thewilliam2 4 1.6k United Kingdom
16 Jun 2017 9:57AM
The other dangerous thing about polyethylene is that it's a hydrocarbon: readily ignited and with the same calorific value as petrol.
ChrisV 14 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
16 Jun 2017 10:32AM
It's now emerging that particular core has been banned for use in buildings in the US over 50 feet high since 2012.

The company that manufactures it also makes an alternative that is fire resistant but is slightly less efficient as an insulator and slightly more expensive:


Quote:A Q&A page on the Reynobond website says, “Question: When do I need fire-resistant (FR) versus polyethylene (PE) Reynobond? The answer to this, in part, depends on local building codes. However, the International Building Code [used in the US] states that in all cases over 50ft above grade, FR is needed.”
The Guardian

thewilliam2 4 1.6k United Kingdom
16 Jun 2017 10:38AM
Has somebody decided that low price is more important than occupant safety? If so, such a person deserves to hang as high as Haman.
Carabosse 18 41.7k 270 England
16 Jun 2017 11:59AM
Apparently the safer cladding would have added only £5,000 to the £8,600,000 refurb.

There's an old saying: "Why spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar".

With the number of dead expected to head towards the three figure mark, this is a grim demonstration of the old adage.
brian1208 18 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
16 Jun 2017 2:06PM
as always, much debate about not much factual information, the result being that when the facts are finally known no one will believe them because the court of public opinion will have already decided the truth and who they reckon is guilty
brian1208 18 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
16 Jun 2017 2:13PM

Quote:PE has a very low melting (combustion?) point - as low as 80c in some versions.



Quote:For common commercial grades of medium- and high-density polyethylene the melting point is typically in the range 120 to 180 °C (248 to 356 °F). The melting point for average, commercial, low-density polyethylene is typically 105 to 115 °C (221 to 239 °F). These temperatures vary strongly with the type of polyethylene


The ignition temperature is 341+ deg C and the question is not whether it was right to use the polyethylene core but whether the panels had the correct fire retardant outer layer (as yet unknown but much hypothesised about)

some facts about materials
spaceman 17 5.3k 3 Wales
16 Jun 2017 2:48PM
Amount of hostility now being aimed at May from all directions is simply astonishing. Never known a British politician inspire such vitriol.
spaceman 17 5.3k 3 Wales
16 Jun 2017 2:54PM
Rumours that Government has resorted to using D notice to prevent media from reporting true death toll at Grenfell tower.
brian1208 18 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
16 Jun 2017 3:47PM

Quote:Rumours that Government has resorted to using D notice to prevent media from reporting true death toll at Grenfell tower.


this sort of rumour probably explains


Quote:Amount of hostility now being aimed at May from all directions is simply astonishing. Never known a British politician inspire such vitriol.


Were I a cynic I may even be tempted to suggest there are those who are playing a very clever but dangerous political game to destroy the conservative government, helping the reported moves by John McDonnell to use protests to achieve this aim
Carabosse 18 41.7k 270 England
16 Jun 2017 6:02PM



Quote: Rumours that Government has resorted to using D notice to prevent media from reporting true death toll at Grenfell tower.


The last known use of a D notice was 2013. With alternative and social media, the D notice system is now almost completely useless and semi-defunct.

A large pinch of NaCl needed, methinks! Wink

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