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Election predictions: The sequel


Snapper 16 4.5k 3 United States Outlying Islands
16 Jun 2017 6:32PM

Quote:
Were I a cynic I may even be tempted to suggest there are those who are playing a very clever but dangerous political game to destroy the conservative government, helping the reported moves by John McDonnell to use protests to achieve this aim


I think it is way simpler than that, as reported on the BBC website.

Quote:Downing Street said the purpose of her visit was to get a briefing from emergency services and she later announced a public inquiry.

But former cabinet minister Michael Portillo said the prime minister "didn't use her humanity".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40298473
16 Jun 2017 6:35PM
The panels are only one part of this, how they were fixed (possibly allowing the cladding to act as a chimney) and how they came to be specified and procured. There are a whole load of other issues, I cant blame anyone for being angry.
thewilliam2 4 1.6k United Kingdom
17 Jun 2017 11:20AM
This government does seem to be doing its best to show itself as uncaring towards the peasantry, whereas the Labour party seems to be doing a very good job of doing the opposite!

Does Mrs May have any competent advisers at all? That manifesto was one of the craziest that I've seen in 60 years pf political awareness and it seems to be getting worse rather than better. A simple and timely personal visit, with the PM soiling her hands by making contact with the afflicted would have worked wonders.
hobbo Plus
10 1.7k 4 England
17 Jun 2017 2:17PM
There is developing, a really nasty, potentially distructive violent marxist undercurrent which could incite rioting and unrest, especially in the already stressed/traumatised capital.
A cynical exploiting of three horrible happenings for one sided-nasty political ends which will be no good for anyone of any political colour.

I am old enough to have lived through WWII when, both government and the people pulled together to win through.....it is this same spirit that we need today, recent happenings require careful thinking, a time for reflection and justice, then to be steady and above party politics.

NO! I'm not a blue, or a red supporter, just someone old enough to have seen it all before, this time it looks potentially even nastier than ever before.

I live in hope that common sense and wisdom will prevail.

Hobbo

thewilliam2 4 1.6k United Kingdom
17 Jun 2017 2:54PM
You're right. We need to look at the happenings in Russia, exactly a century ago.

The last Tsar was actually quite benevolent and had introduced a lot of reforms but too many of the ordinary people still had a miserable lifestyle. Paradoxically, the liberalization prepared the way for Lenin & Co.

Here in the UK, we have increasing divergence of rich and poor and I see this as a very dangerous trend.

The government hasn't made any effort to share the afflictions of austerity, especially with things like the recent 14% pay rise for MPs. Although Marxism has been thoroughly discredited, or much modified because it simply doesn't work in nearly all of the countries that espoused it, we do seem to have a sizeable Marxist undercurrent in the UK.

China is trying to be both communist and capitalist but the People's Democratic Republic of Korea has degenerated into a hereditary monarchy of the very worst kind, under the dictatorship of Kim Fatty III.

The establishment feared a UK revolution between the two world wars. Might it happen now or soon?
gcarth Plus
17 4.2k 1 United Kingdom
18 Jun 2017 4:52PM

Quote:...we do seem to have a sizeable Marxist undercurrent in the UK.
You mean according to the Express and the Telegraph rags. Sad


Quote:The establishment feared a UK revolution between the two world wars. Might it happen now or soon?

It might happen at any time. However, I certainly won't be celebrating the fact that my predictions over the last couple of years or so will have materialised.Sad
gcarth Plus
17 4.2k 1 United Kingdom
18 Jun 2017 6:10PM
There has been a massive groundswell of support for Corbyn and Labour and it is still increasing, apparently.
So because the Establishment are terrified of this increased support for socialism, a socialism that has so far not been much adulterated, I think there will be rocky times ahead. People are at last beginning to see how regressive and sometimes downright evil and corrupt is the Free Market dogma - a dogma that puts profits before people. 'Free Market' dogma was adopted by New 'Labour' and the Tories ever since Thatcher and Reagan. This 'Free Market' dogma which, as most people know, started in the US has caused havoc across the globe.
Mikhail Gorbachev, a moderate leader, wanted to gradually phase in reforms to improve the lot of the Russian people. However, the 'US Free Market', inspired by mad Milton Friedman, wanted to rush through their 'reforms' - which were designed to siphon as much profit out of Russia to the US as possible. So, to cut a long story short, they helped the drunken idiot, Yeltsin into power instead of Gorbachev. That's why we have an elite bunch of Russian oligarchs, along with US Free Market criminals, screwing Russia and the rest of us. The 'Free Market' thrives on 'shock and awe' tactics where chaos and alarm is created in populations in order to push through their greedy, rapacious objectives while the population is still traumatised.
In summary, the 'Free Market' unregulated economic system means there are fewer real governments because the unregulated Free Market and their big corporation buddies are in charge and they want minimal government control.
If a 'nasty' brand of Marxism does happen to prevail, well the right wing Tories and Neo-con/Neo-liberals have only themselves to blame for treating the masses with contempt and dividing the nation.
hobbo Plus
10 1.7k 4 England
18 Jun 2017 6:39PM
You have a very sad, twisted logic Sir.

I have interacted with so many people with opinions exactly like yourself....... you all seem to have the answers but never do anything ....or suggest anything to make the world a better place.

There are right wing oligarchs.....there are left wing oligarchs.....there are downright stupid oligarchs, and there are downright evil oligarchs.......NONE of them give a damn as long as they make profits......even those amongst the marxists.

Just the other day, a Nigerian oil oligarch married in Blenheim Palace at a cost of 5 million pounds...... just a couple of days before the lefty BBC was making an appeal on behalf of poor Africans......it was ever thus.

What I was referring to in my previous posts, is that certain sections of our citizenship are using current events to whip up political discontent but with no thought and bereft of any solution to the problems they appear to highlight.

Hobbo
thewilliam2 4 1.6k United Kingdom
18 Jun 2017 7:03PM
gcarth, the ordinary Russians under communism basically lived like serfs, much as they had done under the Tsars. Both Gorbachev and the last Tsar tried to bring in gradual reforms but it was like trying to deal with an over-stoked pressure cooker. Some sort of explosion was inevitable and people were hurt in both "revolutions", although the 1917 affair was bloody rather than economic.

I'd suggest that no society can survive when the rich get ever richer at the expense of the poor. It gets to the point when the ordinary folk have nothing left to lose. Civilised countries have had tax regimes that mitigate the suffering of the poor but this seems to be going out of fashion!

The very rich seem determined to pay no tax at all and pay their workforces as little as possible. Here in the West Country, the NMW has become the normal wage!
StrayCat 17 19.1k 3 Canada
18 Jun 2017 8:02PM
Believe it or not, that is what Trump is trying to correct. The Obama administration destroyed middle class jobs through over-regulation and kowtowing to all the little special interest groups. They claimed a victory for creating all these jobs, but it was BS, the jobs were part time minimum wage, mostly service industry jobs, on which nobody can live, let alone support a family. By cancelling Obama's executive orders that had regulated everything, including having a crap, he has opened the door for industry to thrive again. Sure, the rich get richer, but so do the poor, and so does the country. The climate for investment has improved greatly in the US, and that creates jobs. It's crazy to blame the rich for the problems of the poor, they need each other. If government creates an unhealthy investment climate, the economy suffers, and the people suffer. Sometime during Obama's 8 years, the liberals totally lost the script on the economy, hence the conservatives have been given a chance. Make no mistake, the government cannot create productive jobs.
Carabosse 18 41.7k 270 England
18 Jun 2017 9:01PM
I wish I could be completely confident that Mr Trump actually knows what he is doing. The business of government is different from the business of business.

Also, someone calculated that, if he had judiciously invested his inheritance from his father, he would be richer than he is today. I.e. using the money to run his own businesses has made him poorer not richer..... all relatively speaking! His 4 bankruptcies from 1991-2009 may suggest there is some truth in that.

So even Trump's business acumen must be open to question. Never mind his administrative ability. I wonder if he'll last the full 4 years?
gcarth Plus
17 4.2k 1 United Kingdom
18 Jun 2017 9:05PM

Quote:You have a very sad, twisted logic Sir.
I think you will find that my 'twisted' logic is more in tune with reality than yours.
You simply need to read the Neo-con 'Project for the New American Century' (a document produced by them outlining their global controlling policies) If you haven't even read that you are hardly qualified to accuse me of having a 'twisted logic'.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist - conspiracies are so often wrong and just muddy the waters. I'm saying that the evidence is there in front of you if you care to look.

Quote:.....the lefty BBC...
What??? There is nothing lefty about the BBC, man.
If the BBC are so left-wing, how is that they have until recently, been attacking Corbyn nearly as much as the Tory press.

Quote:...there are left wing oligarchs....


What! Where?

Quote:a Nigerian oil oligarch married in Blenheim Palace at a cost of 5 million pounds

Yes, but he's not a Marxist or left winger: he is in fact practising 'Free Market' dogma.

Quote:What I was referring to in my previous posts, is that certain sections of our citizenship are using current events to whip up political discontent but with no thought and bereft of any solution to the problems they appear to highlight.

Well, you say that: the Telegraph and Express and other tabloid trash might say that. I don't support the use of a truly sickening and tragic event to further political causes. However, I'm pretty damned sure that the protesters know that time is of the essence if the government are to be prevented from using delaying tactics or trying to sidestep this issue and pass the blame on to someone else.
gcarth Plus
17 4.2k 1 United Kingdom
18 Jun 2017 9:15PM

Quote:I wish I could be completely confident that Mr Trump actually knows what he is doing. The business of government is different from the business of business.

Also, someone calculated that, if he had judiciously invested his inheritance from his father, he would be richer than he is today. I.e. using the money to run his own businesses has made him poorer not richer..... all relatively speaking! His 4 bankruptcies from 1991-2009 may suggest there is some truth in that.

So even Trump's business acumen must be open to question. Never mind his administrative ability. I wonder if he'll last the full 4 years?

Well said, CB.Smile
He's just a big con artist who pretends he's going to help the workers when in fact he's doing the same as the Clintons, Bush and Obama: He's funnelling the wealth up to the already super rich by cutting their taxes and safety regulations, etc.
The fact is that he and his aides have strong links with Goldman Sachs and other thieving bankers who brought about the 2008 crash.
He's a known liar and manipulator but it's no good just impeaching him or whatever because he's just one piece of s**t in the cesspit of 'Free Market Economics'. When Trump visited his golf course in Scotland, he wanted to extend his land grab; when an aide pointed out that a woman owned a cottage on the land that he had his eyes on, Trump just said "So who cares?" Nice.Sad
gcarth Plus
17 4.2k 1 United Kingdom
18 Jun 2017 9:32PM

Quote:gcarth, the ordinary Russians under communism basically lived like serfs, much as they had done under the Tsars. Both Gorbachev and the last Tsar tried to bring in gradual reforms but it was like trying to deal with an over-stoked pressure cooker. Some sort of explosion was inevitable and people were hurt in both "revolutions", although the 1917 affair was bloody rather than economic.

I'd suggest that no society can survive when the rich get ever richer at the expense of the poor. It gets to the point when the ordinary folk have nothing left to lose. Civilised countries have had tax regimes that mitigate the suffering of the poor but this seems to be going out of fashion!

The very rich seem determined to pay no tax at all and pay their workforces as little as possible. Here in the West Country, the NMW has become the normal wage!

Absolutely agree. I think the sooner we get used to the idea that the richest in society have to pay more tax, the better. If they don't like it, then sod off abroad and don't come back! There are always plenty more entrepreneurs who are a bit less greedy who will replace them. The super rich take the rest of us for idiots: They say they need incentives but seem to think their workers are not quite human and therefore don't need incentives.
hobbo Plus
10 1.7k 4 England
18 Jun 2017 9:34PM
Sadly you are beyond help and understanding I'm afraid......like all lefties you flatly refuse to see what is right in front of you.......your way is the only way, you refuse to see any other and your cohorts can do no wrong and tell the absolute truth at all times ? ? ?....oh! And you don't like being challenged, and bite the bait like a hungry fish.

Socialist oligarchs? What about the donor's to Labour/ what about the equivalent amounts of dosh donated by unions?
Oh yes! Two of our local out and out socialists whom I often have discussions with, have second homes, more than one car and live on over generous local authority pensions...... grade 1 listed thatched cottages, in a conservation area......canal boat living........holiday lets.......

Me? An ex snotty nose council house brat, with manual and farm labourers ( Ag Labs) going back to 1754 and beyond......one of my direct relatives married into the family of Joseph Arch, founder of the agricultural union......my uncle and grandfather were founder members of the local.....Working Men;s Club......very sadly, the TRUE socialist ideals of their day has been corrupted by marxist rabble rousers,,who just want to stir things up.


I want you to remember our exchanges on here......then, when you finally have your Marxist utopia, you can return to tell me all about how much you have gained in the process and to tell me how much richer and happier people are........sad thing is, I probably won't be here.

Hobbo

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