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Feeling dismayed


geppel 18 37
20 Jul 2004 1:16AM
I am feeling dismay at the way very similar pictures are posted on EPZ yet for some reason seem to get completely differing clicks or attention even. I don't know if this has anything to do with the times images are uploaded or just the lack of time factor so people will always go to the portfolios they know best when they have time online, or have been chatting on the forums and got to know each other better. obviously there are people who have met up through forums and gone on meets. Is it right that u only get feedback by heavy usage of the forum? or is this not the case at all. I once touched on the theme of there being cluiqueness- i also hope this is not the case because I really find this site to be useful in enhancing ones techniques and knowledge and would be saddened to find out this was occuring. furthermore i do not keep a list of people whose work i like, i tend to remember the peoples portfolios and if they use the site a lot i eventually find my way round to viewing their work because i only ever click on thumbnails i like and it will sometimes happen to be one of theirs. But this is not to say everytime i click it is someone familiar. i hope that what i'm saying is coming across to everyone clearly! plus that some people can see what i'm talking about......hope so otherwise i may have to join a new site, gulp! please no, have become very attached to EPZ, just feeling a bit frustrated. it's late and i'm a bit tired, long day on feet shooting so will leave it there. goodnight all.
davidhagen 18 168
20 Jul 2004 3:10AM
all of the above is correct. it social. its subjective...
adamm 18 2 Australia
20 Jul 2004 3:33AM
Guy,
There is nothing wrong with what you have said i too have felt the same frustration but have learnt that my images are posted out of the sheer need to gain experience if people click on my images along the way then cool.... if not then "such is life"...... i like my photo's... and if any one else chooses to click on them maybe even leave constructive criticism then all is well in the world... Smile think of how the timing thing effects me... posting to a U.K site from here in Oz... don't leave the site.... leave the need for recognition behind... relish in the fact that you take great images... and not every one is going to like them.. all of this in my own opinion of course.... take it or leave it ....
Cheers
Adam
billma 18 119 United States
20 Jul 2004 4:49AM
I have reviewed three of my favorite photographers on here...they get a bunch of clicks and comments. They comment on the photographs of others at a rate of 8x or more per their uploads. My favorite, Timecatcher, comments at a rate of 20 per upload. I see others that get many clicks the comment at a rate of 30-40 per personal upload.

I have come to understand that this is a community. As with most communities, you get back in proportion to your willingness to contribute. If you comment at a ratio of 2x your uploads, you will get a lower level of responses to your photo.

I often look at a photo and then go into the portfolio...if I see the the person typically does not make comments, I assume that they are not interestd in receiving feeback and move on to the next photograph.

Hope this is helpful in some way.

Bill
adamm 18 2 Australia
20 Jul 2004 5:42AM
well said Bill....
UserDeleted 19 3.6k
20 Jul 2004 7:28AM
Guy,

I think you have received some great advice here. I would add my own observations.

In the 3 months you ave been a member you have uploaded 64 photos (that's about 2 every 3 days). So you have been quite prolific in your time on the site in one area.

However, with 120 comments, and 12 forums responses you are not a high user of the other aspects of the community - where you will get your name known and I think that this might be the issue.

Sports images are notoriously under-viewed on the site - particularly motorsports, and I would suggest architecture suffers a similar fate.

People (especially nekkid women!) and wildife/nature tend to get more views, clicks and comments.

As many of your images are not "naturals" you will need to drive people to your portfolio by commenting more on others, and maybe using the forum a little more - although I firmly believe that photo commenting is the more effective.

Personally I'm not as worried about the feedback, the forum is where I get most of my fun out of the system. But I have noticed that more popular subjects get more viewings.

You might also want to vary your upload time, and even sharpen up your portfolio so that when others visit it they might retrospectively comment on other images....I don't page through more than twice to see other work....

As for a clique - sorry you are wrong. This site is more and more diverse every day....yes people begin to get to know each other - maybe meet up and that might spark a desire to view that person's images more but this is real social life - and one that can do no harm.....

Talk more, to more people, and you will find they talk back and you'll get more comments and clicks.

Mike
stewe 19 126
20 Jul 2004 7:33AM
......I write this by firstly saying I have only just returned to this site in the last couple of weeks.....
I agree to some of the above. However I think there maybe a few reasons why comments are or are not made on photos. For my part I only comment on photos I like and that is for the main a certain subject matter.. (wildlife).. I might like the subject matter but feel the photo is not that good, but will still comment with I hope constructive comments... Now and again I do see other subjects that I see and go WOW thats good.. ie.. I commented on a landscape the other day.. (lavender and house)...But for the main I do not get anything out of looking at landscapes/ absract / buildings / heavily manipulated photos to name a few.. I am not saying they are not good. I just do not like them myself. So my comments are restricted for the most part....wildlife.
It is great to get comments, but this opens the subject of what do you say. Some people feel uncomfortable saying anything negative about a photo. So maybe people say nothing rather than offend. It can be read in a totally wrong way.. (just look at some of the forums that have caused aruguements because what was thought someone meant)...
For me Adam has the right view.. Put photos up you like..If nothing is said, 'So Be It'.. I have no problem with comments good or bad.. All I expect is honest views..Not views made on the basis I am / am not in a 'gang'...

Stewe
Pete 21 18.8k 97 England
20 Jul 2004 7:52AM
Some fantastic feedback here and I hope no one ever feels that there are cliques. As editor I do comment on some pics but don't have time to do so on many. I also occasionally post pictures and have a portfolio. One of my pictures has received over 80 clicks but many only get between 5 or 10, so it really is mostly down to whether the photo is liked and not who that person is. As has been said, there are people who get on well and will comment on each other's material, but that is usually only because they have made the effort to bond with others like them.
snapbandit 18 2.3k 3 Northern Ireland
20 Jul 2004 8:05AM
All those pic's & clicks & still no EC!!!

or would that seem a touch 'biased'!!
LOL
;-D)
agoreira 18 6.0k Wales
20 Jul 2004 8:27AM
Tend to agree with the original poster, I find this a very "cliquey" group. The subject has been raised before, in fact if you search for "clique" you'll get 110 hits, so you're not the first to think that way. I agree up to point with the comment that you need to comment on other photos first before you can expect some feedback yourself. However, it needs to be of the "back slapping" variety, negative feedback is not going to get you rave reviews, or indeed any reviews, no matter how good your photos are, or how bad their's might be. I'm a great believer in feedback, it's essential, but telling someone their's is a great shot,(when it clearly isn't) simply because you know them, you've been on a meet with them, or because they have made a favourable comment on your shot, to me, is a nonsense and doing them no favours at all.
Time to don the tin hat!

Frank
brian1208 18 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
20 Jul 2004 8:46AM
Taking the "Tin Hat" idea a bit further Frank - there was a war cartoon with two Tommies sat in a shell hole. One is saying to the other "if you know a better 'ole - sit in it" Smile

The question of cliques vs clicks is raised every now and then, as you say. However, compared to many sites this is far and away the best for both content and critiquing style. I suspect that is why so many of us keep coming back? (my personal view of course, others are welcome to disagree)

Brian
Pete 21 18.8k 97 England
20 Jul 2004 9:00AM
Frank I do not think this is a cliquey site - lets put this into perspective: there are people who get on (some of these groups are now meeting). But that happens everywhere you go, supermarket, post office, bank, keep fit class, swimming pool. If you walk in and keep quiet most will carry on as they were. If you say hello someone will say hello back. If it was a clique site no new people would ever feel welcome.

You may get 110 hits if you type in clique. We get 160,000 visitors each month that's not a fair representation. No matter how open armed members became there would always be someone who thought it was still cliquey.
agoreira 18 6.0k Wales
20 Jul 2004 9:14AM
"this is far and away the best for both content and critiquing style."

I think it's because its what people want to hear Brian. While that is nice, I don't think it helps their photography. It doesn't have to be harsh criticism, simply pointing out errors or faults. Making suggestions to improve a photo. I agree with you that other sites are generally less kind, more critical in their feedback, but personally, I find that much better for the person concerned. I've been ripped to shreads in other groups, we all have, I guess, but far from resenting it, I welcome that sort of feedback, I'm convinced I'm going to learn more that way. If it's rubbish, I expect to be told that, and hopefully, suggestions as to what I can do to improve it, to avoid it happening again. When someone puts up a very soft shot here, with blown highlights, sloping horizon etc, and people say "Great Shot", they're going to think that it is great, unless someone points out the faults.

Frank
20 Jul 2004 9:23AM
Speaking from a purely personal point of view. I do have my favourite photographers but I do not click on every upload, only the ones I like. I have been given praise but more importantly constructive critism. I like to think I do the same, honesty is best. I still have a lot to learn but think that were it not for the advice given through the many generous and kind members on this site I would not now be at a stage where I was seriously considering paid work.
20 Jul 2004 9:49AM
I click on images that appeal to me, I might criticise on a few simple points like "crop seems a bit tight" or "image seems a bit dark" or "not as sharp as it might have been" these are the only type of critical comments I think I am qualified to make, other images that do not appeal to me (but dont particularly know why) I just do not comment, now as time goes on this might change as I become more technically aware.
I do try to view and comment on photos whose thumbnails stand out to me as much as possible as I think input is essential for communities like ez to work, I certainly do not earmark a member for clicks just because we have sparked a relationship through ez, but I do make an effort to view anyones portfolio who has taken the time to view and comment/click on one of my images, now if there's an image within their portfolio that appeals to me it'll get clicked and a comment ( I do not click without a comment)if there arent then I will not click but may sometimes comment.
Far from there being a clique on this site I find that newbies are welcomed with open arms and all images are given a fair crack of the whip, of course the times of day an image is uploaded is going to have a massive impact e.g. 9-5 most at work, midnight 8am most in bed and then images may get lost in the massive amount of uploads at the more popular times.
Rather than trying to analyse why people do what, lets just accept this site for what it is a lot of fun where we can meet new friend and learn a bit about our hobby or in some cases profession.. PHOTOGRAPHY.

Russ

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