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Giving comments; Where are we aming for?


geo 17 46 France
8 Apr 2004 8:46AM
Referring to the discussion at Eric Faragher's page
I really wonder how we look at the comments we give and receive at Ephotozine.

What do we expect?
Praise and kisses from other members?
Or a really honest comment that says that a photo is real bad,
when it is or when the viewer feels it is and explains why.

As far as now 99% of the given comments are always positiv to extreme positiv.
Are we that good in photography? Or are we not able to judge.
Once in a while somebody makes a more negative comment about a shot
and suddenly the whole Ephotozine community panics and gets upset.

I have a very strong feeling that all we do here at Ephotozine is giving each other compliments.
When a photo is real bad, we just don't comment.
And is that really where we after?

Love you all, but please let's be fair with each other and stop this amateurism.

George

(Please pardon my English; it's not my mothers tongue)
Bernie 17 2.2k
8 Apr 2004 8:48AM
Well said..
eddieali1961 17 97 United Kingdom
8 Apr 2004 9:07AM
George, I totaly agree with you on this one. I have just taken up photography a couple of weeks ago, and as much as I like the pic's I have taken and as much as it is nice to be praised for a pic I would like critism when it is needed. After all it would help me to know what I may or may not be doing wrong.
Eddie.
User_Removed 19 7.3k 6 United Kingdom
8 Apr 2004 9:11AM
It is in part for this reason that I asked some weeks ago that we have a gallery category for Critique. Those who want to 'exhibit' their photos could then upload them to one of the existing categories but those people who want genuine honest critique can get it and then those people who are prepared to make judgements on other people's work can do so in the knowledge that they are not going to be torn to shreds for expressing an honest opinion.

I have to say that I feel on the whole that there is far too much 'lovey doveyness' in much of the comments which is fine as far as it goes but for those people looking to improve their photography, really doesn't help too much. Having been on the receiving end of vitriol when I expressed honest opinion in the past, I am loathe to pass comment on postings these days

Barrie
kingseany 17 84
8 Apr 2004 9:12AM
I quite often give negative comments, but try and do it without offending people. I expect some myself, but not as a result of me giving bad ones. I feel that people probably don't leave negative comments so often as they think they'll get people putting their own work down too.... Look at my last image, it's got lots of people saying it's really great, when I know for a fact that technically it's not!
keithh 17 25.8k 33 Wallis And Futuna
8 Apr 2004 9:13AM
I have on occasion felt a pang of guilt when a photo has appeared; I have made some suggestive comments (politely) only to find that photo has vanished immediatley afterwards and wondered if it was something I said. But it is true that it pointless to post shots only to have ones ego massaged. If we can't take critisism then we're in the wrong game.
8 Apr 2004 9:20AM
Very difficult question with I don't think any definitive answer. Personally I am more than happy to recieve any kind of "constructive" criticism on things I post, that is infact the main reason I post at all, to learn and become a better photographer. However the same criticism may have completely the opposite effect on someone else, particularly if they deem whoever is giving the criticism to be of a lower skill in general than themselves.
I probably need to note on each submission that any opinion at all is welcomed!!

Oh I also think people tend to remove any photo's that recieve negative comments which is a shame as other people can also learn from the criticism.
User_Removed 19 7.3k 6 United Kingdom
8 Apr 2004 9:24AM
I also think there is a case of "The Emperors New Clothes" about comments and specifically shots that obtain ECs

Almost without exception, a photograph that gets an EC not only receives more comments than any other photograph posted but they are also of the 'wow', 'superb' etc type. There have been a couple awarded recently that have been less than inspiring in my opinion but I accept that Pete loves them so fine with me but to read the comments I sometimes wonder if people are looking at completely different photographs to me Smile

A recent gallery posting received the comment "It's so sharp and detailed". The photograph (of a bird) looked so poorly focused to me that I almost went straight down to Specsavers!

Barrie Smile
pepe 17 3
8 Apr 2004 9:27AM
Very well said.
I am glad you brought this forward.
Ephotozine is great, but it is like in 'Kindergarten'.
P.
eddieali1961 17 97 United Kingdom
8 Apr 2004 9:31AM
When I check out anyones pics I leave a comment but I feel that I am not experianced enough to comment on things like this pic is over exposed. I dont want to come over as the guy who does not know anything about photography which I dont, and everyone thinking who does he think he is.
Eddie
Nyx 18 533
8 Apr 2004 9:38AM
I personally want to improve and i cant do that if ppl avoid commenting on my bad photos because theyre afraid of offending me id like ppl to tell me even if it comes across a little harsh just say 'Michelle hun its crap bin it!' But also tell me how it could be improved.Although it is nice when someone tells you they think your photo is great as it is i mean come on who doesnt like a bit of flattery now and then!If people dont want to be told their photos arent fantastic or how they could be improved then theyre in the wrong place.You want pure adoration get a puppy Wink
Michelle
bayesp 18 292
8 Apr 2004 9:39AM
I agree with all the comments here, and thats a first.
I want to improve my photography, the only way to do this is for people who know what they are talking about, to tell me where i am going wrong (or right).
There are 2 types of people that comment on photographs, those that just like the image and are not overly intrested in it's technical merits and those that take it a little more seriously and look at all aspects of the image.
i think a seperate critique section would be worthwile if used specifically for that purpose, that is constructive criticism and comment on all aspects of the image. Adding feilds to input aperture, iso and shutter settings etc would help. You could maybe use the EXIF info if it's available.
Commenting and clicking should still be available in the original gallery.

If some of the professionals who use this site where willing to give up some valuable time, we cold even have a sort of online classroom, where a project is set and then image are uploaded and guidance given. This would be superb for people like me but maybe a little hopeful.

Cheers all

Paul
UserRemoved 17 4.2k
8 Apr 2004 10:00AM
I agree with a lot of the posts above.

I post the photos I like on here.
The photos I want critiques for I post on photosig.

Most of the comments on here are superb, nice composition, nice capture. Not a great deal of use if I'm trying to improve on an image.

I rarely make comments on photos here.
I email people on here with critques if they want them. I would generally 'properly' critique photos on photosig or via email. I do try to be constructive as I know how much it hurts if people assasinate your pride and joy Wink

As with all constructive criticism it depends on how the people (or with victims recent comments how others) take the criticism.

I mostly use this site for the forum and either reply to the best of my knowledge on here or email the folk concerned.

As for ECs well, take a look at some EC winners (my own included) and compare the number of comments before the EC is awarded and the number (per day) after it is awarded.

It is noticeable that on say a weekend a photo may go for 2 days with no comments then be awarded an EC and get loads in the next two days. Of course part of this is down to the added exposure an EC brings but I have my suspicions Wink

At the end of the day an EC is one persons opinion (Petes) and everyone should have the right to agree or disagree with it.
geo 17 46 France
8 Apr 2004 10:07AM
You're very right Joe.
That's exactly the way it is.
lobsterboy Plus
17 14.9k 13 United Kingdom
8 Apr 2004 10:19AM
Having come here to learn, I have recieved most of the response you can get by now:
1. Constructive criticsm with suggestions for improvement and even people downloading my pics and showing me how to recrop them - this is great, one of these on a picture can do wonders for your photographic skills.
2. No Response at all - what was wrong with the pic? or did it just not look attractive in the thumbnails? or was it just dire? I'll never know. I deleted it - depressed Sad
3. A tryptich I was working on that I wanted some feedback as to how to improve it (the title was "help wanted") no one commented - I deleted it Sad
4. 20+ hearts all saying "Yes it works", & "excellent" this was a great ego boost and helped me realise I could do something right Smile

So 1 was the most usefull followed by 4 - not sure why 2 & 3 got no comments but I would much rather some one had said something then left me with no idea what was wrong.

Just my experience - i often look for commentless photos now and try to work out why they have no comments. It helps the poster & me Smile

Chris

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