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Great photo little interest


9 Apr 2016 9:25AM
Is it just me but sometimes you post a great picture on here that has took lots of time patience and considerable skill to accomplish and few people even notice it.
But then you put a picture of a scabby squirrel or tame Robin and the comments pour in. My Sparrowhawk picture yesterday was an example where I have spent hours waiting for him to turn up and when I grab the shots it is simply viewed as a lucky moment or worse still a captive bird tied to a post!

Steve

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dark_lord Plus
15 2.4k 599 England
9 Apr 2016 9:47AM
I'm afraid it's the case unfortunately. it is saddening when you see good shots with no recognition. Not just wildlife images either.
There are many unsharp and badly composed bird images uploaded here, perhaps those posting don't know where the 'Delete' button is Wink. And for those voting on them they need a trip or two to Specsavers Wink

By the way, I didn't get on much yesterday so I haven't seen your image yet. Catch up later Smile
Dave_Canon 13 1.6k United Kingdom
9 Apr 2016 10:02AM
Steve, this is not something exclusive to ePhotozine. I have been entering Club, National and International competitions for decades and it soon became apparent that those viewing your images make their assessment very quickly and just on what they see. Generally they have no idea how much effort and skill you have had to use and, in most cases, how could they. Over the years, I have had favourites because I know how much effort has gone into its capture and processing but some fail miserably to impress others. However, this is balanced by those cases of a lucky shot or blind judge where the image is awarded more than it deserves. This is why we have some discussion sessions at my club where members can talk about their favourite images and tell the full story; we had such a session last week for our Nature Group. There were some interesting stories behind some of the images such as lying in snow for 4 hours in a hide in the artic circle for one shot of a bird of prey but the shot was incredible. It was not lucky as the photographer is a very experienced and skilled nature photographer.

Dave
Snapper Plus
14 4.4k 3 Scotland
9 Apr 2016 10:27AM
It's the kind of photo I would have been delighted to take, but I wouldn't then have described it as

Quote:Well the weather today was crappy with poor light and he goes and turns up!

So this is all I could manage, high iso slow shutter speed and a background I'm not happy with. There is always tomorrow


which suggests you don't really think it is that good. If you'd said you had been waiting for hours in poor weather then people might have been more willing to give more praise for your efforts?
meyeview 10 1.4k 1 United Kingdom
9 Apr 2016 10:34AM

Quote:Is it just me but sometimes you post a great picture on here that has took lots of time patience and considerable skill to accomplish and few people even notice it.
But then you put a picture of a scabby squirrel or tame Robin and the comments pour in. My Sparrowhawk picture yesterday was an example where I have spent hours waiting for him to turn up and when I grab the shots it is simply viewed as a lucky moment or worse still a captive bird tied to a post!

Steve



you need to comment on every picture, regardless of quality, so that people will reciprocate.
quality doesn't always mean 'likes'.
be happy that you got the image and you know that you can produce a good image.
lemmy 12 2.8k United Kingdom
9 Apr 2016 10:49AM
The amount of work or skill that goes into a picture is immaterial, really. Would you say that book was good because it was very difficult to write? Or a piano piece good because it was hard to play? I don't think so.

Any picture editor will tell you that the worst judge of a picture is the photographer who took it. We may not like other people's judgement of our work but they can't be wrong. If we want (do we?) praise, then we should take pictures of those cuddly creatures that we know people will like. Satisfaction, though, is in ploughing your own furrow and people coming to you. There will be fewer of them but their judgement will matter to you.

By the way, when I use 'you' here, it sounds like I'm being disparaging or rude to the OP, which I'm not. I wish we could use 'one' in English without sounding pretentious.

Jestertheclown 11 8.0k 252 England
9 Apr 2016 10:56AM

Quote:
you need to comment on every picture, regardless of quality, so that people will reciprocate.


That depends upon the comments that you make.
Reciprocal praise is worthless.
By all means look at every image and by all means comment on all of them but if the image is obviously absolute rubbish, then say it's absolute rubbish.
See how many people reciprocate with that!
If you're after loads of meaningless votes, then latch on to one of the 'click cliques.' From your opening post, it seems you've already encountered one and unsurprisingly aren't impressed.
It sounds to me as if you'd be better off posting your shots in the critique gallery.
You won't find anyone fawning over you and you may not always agree with opinions in there but at least they're honest opinions and they're always open to polite debate.

arhb 12 3.4k 68 United Kingdom
9 Apr 2016 11:18AM
The comment that has 2 likes regarding dialling out the aperture to raise the s/speed is wrong, as it would put all the body feather detail out of focus! Personally I think your aperture setting is spot on.
It's a great shot of one of my favourite raptors, and I'd be very happy to have captured it.
Regarding votes on epz, it means absolutely nothing to do with image quality. As you have already observed, many questionable images get high vote numbers from their social groups, quite possibly for encouragement, or maybe because they feel obliged to like due to a 'like for a like' agreement with other members.

kitz 13 435
9 Apr 2016 11:36AM
And there are other sites you can also try where photos are published on their merit alone, but 'at the end of the day' if you appreciate it that's all that really matters.
Chris_L 5 5.3k United Kingdom
9 Apr 2016 12:24PM

Quote:The amount of work or skill that goes into a picture is immaterial, really

I absolutely agree but some people treat photography as if it was a sport. Some wildlife photographers stalk like hunters do. The same people are more likely to vote on an image of a wild owl versus a captive owl. I can kind of see why they do that.

As for OP's point - the time of year, day of the week and at what time you post your image will dictate how many views it gets before being swept along in the stream of uploads. That, in turn, will dictate votes.

Some people may not vote on your technically excellent portrait because they don't like the look of the person, to them he may look like a criminal; but they'd vote on a photo of a cat in the garden snapped with a compact because they love cats, same with sunsets etc.
Overread 11 4.1k 19 England
9 Apr 2016 2:02PM
A few thoughts:

1) As said the time/day and such of when you post can be very important. Weekends generally generate less interest no matter what time you post something whilst during the weekday they get more attention. The time is a huge factor - post something at 2 am and it will be buried before most are awake; whilst if you post at the wrong time during peek activity you can get your post buried in a sea. This is applicable on any social website - more active ones more so - and those with a bias to a certain time-zone will vary on your local time as to when its best to post; but otherwise its a universal truth.

2) Your individual efforts are nothing; all people see is the photo. That photo is then measured up to all else that that viewers see which means for something like natural studies you're up against national geographic and all the other big names too often as not.

3) Wildlife has a lot of captive stuff in it; even on most sites the designation "wildlife" often more so means "its not a common domestic animal" rather than "actually living in the wild animal". So people often assume its captive or trained more so than not; esp if the shot is left without additional notation and the pose could be done to hide things like leashes or jessies.

4) Sometimes a story helps - to write what happened underneath and the like; a picture might say 1000 words but they might not be the right ones for what you want it to say or express to people.



In general you've got to have a measure of self confidence and self worth. I also find it helps to be involved in a couple of websites - generalist high activity ones - niche focused communities and sometimes you've just got to have a friend site with a few mates which might not be as active in terms of volume but might well be more social and welcoming commentary wise.
cuffit Plus
13 342 5 England
9 Apr 2016 2:42PM
I agree with just about all comments made so far and I think they sum up the one constant when it comes to looking at photos - it is subjective; we are all photographers but we each have different personalities, interests, skill levels, equipment and ideas (leaving aside inate talent) about what makes a good photo. Steve's photo is a fine one and I would be very happy with a User Award and, at present, 32 votes; particularly so given Steve highlights there are elements of the photo he is not happy with.

I have my own view about votes. I think the number of votes you get is proportional to the views and experience seems to bear out my theory - it is 1 vote every 3 views. Steve has 90 odd views (66 unique) and 32 votes. Also, while the numbers on the site appear high (1149 guests and 57 members as I write - with 27 hidden???), there are more non-voting viewers than voting so you are doing well if a photo attracts 30 votes or more before you photo slides to the right and is replaced by newer material. Steve's photo was 177 photos down the list and, as I did not view anything yesterday, I would have missed it entirely had I not seen the forum entry. The new scrolling view allows for a swifter look at photos but I wonder if it also means that many good photos are missed - but perhaps our individual view of what we like will filter photos even quicker than before.

Although it may/will appear that I am a bit hung up on the subject, I am actually quite relaxed about getting votes - mainly because I do reasonably well (I have given up expecting many votes for my motorsports photos no matter how good they are as it is niche topic on this site). Getting up toward 30 is such an unexpected pleasure it is still nice to try and take good photos, no matter how they might be taken or difficult to get.
redhed17 14 866 England
9 Apr 2016 3:11PM

Quote:you need to comment on every picture, regardless of quality, so that people will reciprocate.
quality doesn't always mean 'likes'.


This is one of the reasons I stopped using the gallery here many many years ago, it seemed you had to have a reciprocal click relationship with other users to receive any clicks. I saw many (imho) poor pictures receiving many (again imho) 'appreciative' clicks that the image (imho) didn't warrant for whatever reason. It is the same in many places, but here is one of the first places I saw it in action and didn't want to be part of it. I do know that my pics may not have been deemed worthy of receiving any clicks btw. Wink

It is very discouraging to see pictures, which may be similar to your own, though 'in your own opinion' much worse for whatever reason appearing very popular.


Quote:be happy that you got the image and you know that you can produce a good image.
I agree, unless you are trying to make a living from selling pictures, the only people you have to please are yourself.

I also agree that the photographer may not be the best judge of what people may like. I've just joined a site to try and start selling some prints, and as I am new, with no 'friends', it is interesting to see which images are popular or not, at least with the other users, up to now. (no sales yet:-( lol) Some images I really like have not gone down as well as I would have liked/expected, others which I obviously liked, but where not 'the best' have been very popular.

Everyone brings their own prejudices and preconceptions to the images they like (or not) and not everyone has the same view of course. For some it is only the image that matters, for others it may be seen as competition, and sadly for some it may be more important if someone as like/clicked/voted on your pic. :-/

Generally I don't care about the 'story' behind the pic, how easy or hard it was to do. Mostly I may be interested in where a place was rather than anything else if I bother to read a description. For me, like a lot of Art, if you have to explain it to imbue some value/importance to it, then that has not worked IMHO. That was in capitals and bold for a reason people. Wink
saltireblue Plus
9 9.9k 38 Norway
9 Apr 2016 3:39PM
A couple of interesting things here.

My latest upload has received 58 votes. At least 28 of those are from people I do not follow, and who to the best of my knowledge, do not follow me.

The image was uploaded at a time and on a day not usual for me. 17:30 on a Wednesday. I normally upload at the weekend. I noticed after uploading that the image was getting more attention quicker than I am used to...coincidental, or was the time/day influential?

There are categories that will always attract more attention in the form of votes. Landscapes with spectacular light... coastal scenes with long exposures, especially if some slimy boulders are in the fg or there are the remains of some wooden structure sticking up from the water... birds of all kinds on all kinds of sticks.

Once, when doing a stint as GE, I gave an award to a MotoGP type shot, captured on the apex of a bend, knee scraping the ground, pin sharp image beautifully captured whilst panning. The first comment was how refreshing to see a motorsport image being recognised as it was such a niche genre.

On another occasion I gave a bird on a stick my UA, and the recipient said he rated that higher than other UAs the image received as he knew what I thought of BOS images. However, I was able to see the photographic merits in the image, and despite my complete lack of enthusiasm for the genre, felt it warranted a UA.

It's all about individual taste. The Norwegians have an expression for it:
Taste is like your bum, it's split down the middle...
capto Plus
7 5.9k 13 United Kingdom
9 Apr 2016 4:17PM
All the the above comments are quite relevant, but I do think that images that may not be of a particularly high standard do deserve the encouragement of a few clicks and comments. If we only clicked on the best images many could then become discouraged. Sites like this one should be friendly places where everyone is encouraged to improve and enjoy the hobby.


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