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High ISO

Fma7 5 1.1k United Kingdom
17 Feb 2017 10:52PM

Quote: Bad Fido.

Lol. Bad Pseudo

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JackAllTog Plus
11 6.1k 58 United Kingdom
17 Feb 2017 11:32PM
I used to shoot a EOS400D and ISO400 was the max i really ever thought i could use, so i craved wide open lenses as i kept missing shots. But the 60D and then the 6D (Max ISO 25,600; expandable to ISO 102,400) are brilliant at evening event photography - I still rarely go above ISO1600 on keeper shots - BUT it does mean i can if needed and with subsequent noise reduction still get a usable shot. Give me ISO Million Million on my next camera and i'll still not use it at the top end - BUT then I'll be able to Auto focus ever more quickly and get depth of field when needed even on a faster shutter speed.
I look forward to taking pictures of owls in flight at night without external light.
StrayCat 16 19.1k 3 Canada
18 Feb 2017 6:17AM
Chris, you don't mention what Roy was asking about; you, and I will agree I'm sure, that the Olympus ibis system is arguably the best available, does it compensate for the lack of high ISO capability of M4/3? I think what he said makes sense, in practical situations at least.
Chris_L 6 5.5k United Kingdom
18 Feb 2017 6:03PM
Denny, do you mean me or ChrisV?

The best IBIS system in the world won't beat putting your camera on a tripod, (or beanbag, wall, floor, fencepost etc.)

If you have IBIS then handholding for half a second or longer is fab due to the sheer convenience. Tripod can beat that time of course, going easily into minutes or hours.

So why do photographers (without IBIS) turn up the ISO instead of using a tripod even in situations where it wouldn't be a problem to use a tripod?

When the subject is something which moves too much.

I've got 5 axis IBIS, ISO of half a million - where 100k is actually usable at a pinch and OSS lenses too.

Maybe I'm the only person who wants such great features and the manufacturers are making these cameras just for me and all the people who have cameras that don't have the features say "good, I wouldn't want it" Grin

StrayCat 16 19.1k 3 Canada
19 Feb 2017 7:24AM
The best IBIS system in the world won't beat putting your camera on a tripod, (or beanbag, wall, floor, fencepost etc.)

It doesn't matter who answers, but I meant ChrisV because nowhere did I see him mention what Roy was discussing. Regards your answer above; look, you know I know what you just stated, everybody in the world knows that. I photograph nature/wildlife, and most of my photo ops do not allow the time to set up a tripod. Also, if you have ever done wildlife photography, you will understand that stealth, and tripod, don't belong on the same page. Sure, if you're into blinds and the like, what other method would you choose? However, I don't get many chances to use a tripod, my opportunities are usually very fleeting, and I miss far more chances than I hit. I sit on the sun deck and set up on a tripod and get lots of shots of the wildlife that visits our back yard, but my most sought after shots come as I'm walking along a path, or driving along a backcountry road, and I may have a few seconds to get the shot. That's what we use image stabilisation for, and I believe it's what Roy was talking about. If we can get the equivalent of 4 or 5 stops with IBIS, isn't that at least as good as 4 or 5 stops of ISO? Hope you can understand the question. You really need to stop looking down your nose at people. I think you have a very difficult time understanding this stuff, and bragging about your kit tells us nothing; we're not discussing still life, or landscapes, or portraiture. Take your camera some day and go out and try to get a few shots of some elusive wildlife, it might open your eyes. And FFS, don't ever try to patronise me again, there were many good reasons why you were kicked off this site once, remember????Wink
StrayCat 16 19.1k 3 Canada
19 Feb 2017 8:00AM
Just to clarify; my op was about the new Olympus camera, and a reviewer stating that only having a high ISO limit of 25,000 was a con. I think it's ridiculous to do that on a camera that would be hard pressed to give you a clean image beyond ISO 1600. However, having read Roy's comments, I think a stabilisation system that gives 5 stops, compensates.
RoyBoy 15 303 2 United Kingdom
19 Feb 2017 8:15AM
Well said Straycat. If I am honest I was a little surprised by the response. I am well aware of the benefits of a tripod as having a MPAGB I am hardly a beginner. I was going to do a response but frankly could not be bothered.
You summerise my initial point very well in your sentence when you say "If we can get the equivalent of 4 or 5 stops with IBIS, isn't that at least as good as 4 or 5 stops of ISO?" The answer to your other sentance when you ask "Hope you can understand the question." is apparently a NO, not just on this site but, as I have observed, often when well intentioned experts do their equipment reviews and compare one product against another. I guess they are all strictly tripod users and as such they have no use for image stabisation benefits and therefore discount such advantages.
Chris_L 6 5.5k United Kingdom
19 Feb 2017 9:03AM

Quote:If we can get the equivalent of 4 or 5 stops with IBIS, isn't that at least as good as 4 or 5 stops of ISO?


I've tried as many analogies as possible Sad

Maybe someone else can explain that it won't let you use a faster shutter speed only a slower one and that some photography needs faster shutter speeds and IBIS doesn't give you that but upping the ISO does
RoyBoy 15 303 2 United Kingdom
19 Feb 2017 9:18AM
Yes a slower shutter speed because of image stabilisation, meaning you can therefore use a lower ISO than would have otherwise been the case and get a sharp image. Photography isn't just about wildlife, sport, etc and needing fast shutter speeds to capture the action. Think low light, night photography, street, portraiture etc, etc. Got what I have been desperately trying to say. NO! .... well I surrender.
C4l3b 3 5 2
19 Feb 2017 11:05AM
You're comparing apples to oranges. Chris is right, lack of high ISO isn't compensated for by having IBIS. You give the example of street portraiture, would you be taking pictures of statues (at 1/20s and half a second etc thanks to IBIS) or pictures of people?

IBIS mainly only helps you avoid the tripod, usable high ISO lets you avoid tripod and low shutter speeds.
ChrisV Plus
13 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
19 Feb 2017 12:02PM
Calm down guys! You're both right to some degree. The IBIS in the EM1 is fantastic and it can mitigate against using higher ISOs by choosing lower shutter speeds. But at shorter focal lengths those shutter speeds of (almost miraculous!) half second shots hand held, are going to mean anything that has the smallest motion (forget people - even rustling leaves!) will give motion blur.

That's not always bad, street scenes with blurred moving figures can be quite appealing. But if you want those figures sharp and identifiable (or your bird in flight), there isn't really much of a substitute for using a higher ISO (or post capture boost - still noisy). I tend to think IS on short range lenses is of limited use for similar reasons- shutter speeds lower than 1/30th when shooting people (and that's when your subject is relatively static) aren't a great idea. Going to longer focal lengths it may be more useful (and here OiS tends to be more reliable than IBIS), because you're talking about shortening exposures to 100th or so - but again even there any subject motion is magnified, so you will need higher shutter speeds).

As to the idea of taking owls in flight, without illumination and getting a clean shot - forget it. That isn't going to happen without some radical change in the technology paradigm - sensors have got very near to optimum efficiency and I can't see there being any more than small gains in image noise unless a different approach emerges (possibly along the lines of the multiple sensor/lens arrays proposed in Light cameras).

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