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I'm really tempted not to bother anymore.


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itinerario 17 42 Netherlands
25 May 2005 3:32AM
If anybody is wondering why the number of comments is falling off, or why there are so many cliques on this site, I think I have an answer. Over the past year I have commented on thousands of photos and Ive become increasingly disillusioned. Even though lately I have pre-selected the people whose work I commented on (they had to have a reasonable photo-to-comment ratio themselves, be new, or I believed the photo was really underappreciated) the vast majority of people never bothered to react in any way, which I think is impolite to say the very least. There are photographers on the site whose pictures I like very much and with whom I share interests (e.g. travel photography, photojournalism), but whose work I no longer comment on because they never reciprocated. I refuse to believe that they couldnt find anything in my portfolio worth commenting (even critically) on. Im really sick and tired of people who only use the site and never give anything back (or even worse, whine that they get so few comments). Maybe my praise wasnt glowing enough, maybe people have been put off by all the complaining there has been about cliques (some EPZiners go to amazing lengths to avoid being thought of as a click fisher), maybe other frequent commentators have fared better (they must have, or they would probably have given up themselves although I have noticed that the detailed comments some of them used to make have deteriorated to routine praise). Im really tempted not to bother anymore and from now on only comment on the work of my friends and the work of people who have commented on mine. I have a feeling other formerly very active EPZiners already do, or have left the site altogether for this reason.

PS: Please dont rehash the old argument that if your photo is good enough, you will get scores of comments, there are plenty of EPZiners who know that is not true.
strawman 17 22.2k 16 United Kingdom
25 May 2005 3:37AM
Wow the amount of attention your portfolio gets I would have thought you would be happy. I would. You must be in the top % of commented on portfolio's or I must be in the basement.

I guess its just expectations.

You have some interesting work, and I have never notice your portfolio by the way. Don't give up.


Your work is to a good standard so the comments are not likely to be of the technical/basics nature. If you put more of a desription in would you generate more of a discussion? i.e what was hapening. magda_indigo is someone you interact with, perhaps some descriptions like hers would help you. It would help me apreciate your photo's.
brian1208 17 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
25 May 2005 3:44AM
I'm a little confused why you feel so badly treated Saskia. Looking at your portfolio you seem to be getting a consistently good reaction to your images, both in terms of number and content of comments.

If its because your aren't getting so many "reciprocal clicks" I suspect that is a direct consequence of the many and various threads complaining about people doing so (and the associated accusations of "Clique" formation)

Your work continues to maintain its high quality and you must know how good it is?

(Having said that - I sometimes get the odd twinge of "blimey They've got 100+ clicks for THAT, what about my images!" Smile

UserHasLeft 17 654
25 May 2005 3:44AM

Quote:Even though lately I have pre-selected the people whose work I commented on

And herein lies the Joseph Heller syndrome.....?
keithh 17 25.8k 33 Wallis And Futuna
25 May 2005 3:44AM
Saskia, your work gets a lot of attention or at least the click figures would indicate it. Many of them have exceeded the 'magical' 30 mark, which if you look at the readers choice gallery happens far less in a day than I originally believed.

If I was you, I'd be proud of the work I did and sit back in the safe knowledge that it is good work too.
25 May 2005 3:47AM
I've often clicked on your work but not commented. Personally I think your standard of work is to be admired but the repricropal click/comment style does not guarantee an appreciation of your art, merely a click back for someone and devalues both members works. Click and comment on work you like not for any other reason.
digicammad 17 22.0k 40 United Kingdom
25 May 2005 3:53AM
Saskia do you keep a database of those people who have had the temerity not to acknowledge your comments or comment on one of yours in return? If not you must waste considerable time pondering whether they are worthy of one of your valuable comments!

Life is too short. Your work regularly receives many more clicks and comments than the majority of shots get, be satisfied. If they are not from those people upon whose work you have commented then they are even more valuable, constructive or not.

I have commented on over 7000 shots in the last 2 years, but other than some regular visiters I haven't a clue whether any of those people have reciprocated and neither am I interested in finding out.

randomrubble 16 3.0k 12 United Kingdom
25 May 2005 3:58AM
Not everyone can do reciprical clickin/comments I have very limited online time, and in that time prefer in general to go to a cross section of recent images rather than those who have clicked on mine. I would have thought that was a way that many of us work.
conrad 16 10.9k 116
25 May 2005 3:59AM
Let me see if I understand you correctly, Saskia:

You want everyone whose photos you click to have a look at your portfolio and click one of yours. Or comment on one of yours. Right? (At least thats what I deduce from your own explanation. Do correct me if Im wrong.)

I admit that this would, of course, be nice, but where do you get the idea that it should always work like this? As far as I know, the intention of having a gallery with thumbnails pages is that one can browse and select. If that was not the intention of the gallery, the system would work differently.

And I have to agree with others - it doesnt look like your uploads suffer from a lack of interest. I know - its nice when more people take the trouble to look at your portfolio, and to comment on some of the pics there. But for me that also very infrequently happens. I like it when it happens, but I dont expect everyone to do that. And at the same time it doesnt stop me from commenting on pics of people that dont belong to a certain circle, or people whom I know I can trust to have a look at my own shots. I dont distinguish like that, I just comment on whatever catches my eye, regardless of who uploaded it. (I often only look at the name of the photographer after Ive clicked, unless its a photo from my Favourite Photographers list.)

Im sorry that youre frustrated, but I dont share your frustration. My main frustration is that I wish my photos were better... Wink

raziel_uk 17 4.9k
25 May 2005 4:00AM
Sorry, but isn't this (abeit thinly) diguised "reciprocal comments/clicks" thread?

I've made 472 "gallery comments" - of course this total also includes muliple comments on the same shot, etc.

However, like Ian, I'm not worried whether someone comments on my shots simply because I commented on theirs.

As for the comment: "Im really sick and tired of people who only use the site and never give anything back..." New members have to subscribe to the site now so in essence they are giving back.

Quote:Please dont rehash the old argument that if your photo is good enough, you will get scores of comments, there are plenty of EPZiners who know that is not true.

As you seem to know the plenty of epz members who "know" this, perhaps you could provide links of where those members have stated this fact.

itinerario 17 42 Netherlands
25 May 2005 4:10AM
I do not think my work is underappreciated (well, maybe a little). That must really seem strange to people who get much less clicks than I do. I have been raised to be polite and I think it is rude not to acknowledge someone who has made the effort to comment on one of your pictures. This is the reason I almost invariably reciprocate comments (which does not mean I heap insincere praise on the first photo I encounter however, I have seldom seen a portfolio that did not contain some photos with merit or possibilities). Im not a click fisher: I dont care what the reaction is: a thank you, click and comment, or critique. If I say the vast majority, I mean that more than 3/4 of the EPZiners I comment on for the first time do neither. Im really surprised that people on this site condone behaviour that they wouldnt do in normal life. I mean, would you continue to greet a neighbour who doesnt say a word back -let alone send him a Christmas card?
keithh 17 25.8k 33 Wallis And Futuna
25 May 2005 4:12AM
But many of us have 12,000 neighbours?
digicammad 17 22.0k 40 United Kingdom
25 May 2005 4:14AM
If I sent Christmas cards to hundreds or thousands of people who I did not know I would not expect anything. It's too easy to label people impolite.

Yes it would be nice if all your comments were acknowledged but you do not know their situation and therefore can not judge them.

Do you make comments because you want to help or because you want people to say what a good guy you are?

raziel_uk 17 4.9k
25 May 2005 4:17AM
Perhaps lock this before it does become a "comments/clicks" thread as many in the past.

25 May 2005 4:18AM
I dont keep a count but the site does, nearly 11500 comments and I can probably say that about 60% of those never get a thank you, even when you've taken time and trouble to research and give information, do I worry no, because it may be seen by someone else and if it helps thats all that matters. There is a big clique on the site, one that has members who reciprocal click anything other members in that clique have put up regardless of errors, if you want to join something like that then fine but I rather have the knowledge that people were clicking because they like it and not because they want something in return. Sorry for this but some things just get me wound up and I have to say it, sorry, sorry :-(