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if you had to choose?

elowes 17 2.8k United Kingdom
2 Apr 2007 8:08PM
If sold as a kit they are being sold down to a price and not for quality.

The most important part of any camera is the lens. Buy the very best you can afford. If that means one lens make it the one you will use most often.

If you want 17 x 22 prints then you are kidding yourself if you think any of the these kit combinations will give you quality enough to bother printing above A4 or A3 at a pinch. You need the 400D plus L lenses.

What are you shooting to want such large print sizes?
PV 14 23
2 Apr 2007 8:12PM
70% of my pictures were taken with Canon18-55mm
The lens is wide enough for landscape, not expensive, good quality for very low price. No “L” of course, but…
certx 14 415 1 United States
3 Apr 2007 3:20AM
Folks, I don't have the kind of money to lay out all at once that it would take for buy the body and a couple good quality lenses. I understand what everyone is saying about good lenses. I wish I had the money to lay out on the body, and then a thousand or so for a long zoom. I don't. It's just that simple. Any questions here are pointless. I don't have the money. I won't cut down on the MP. Pedantic or not, I don't make nor can I change the requirements that the local digital print shops have. It's not my choice. I won't sit and stare at my nice shiny new camera body for months while I save for good lenses, wishing I could go use it. I'll put less than high quality lenses on it for the time being so I can at least use it while I save for good lenses. That's just the only choice I have. Can anyone here understand that? Or does every one here just have the cash to throw down for all of it at once? I don't. Perhaps that concept escapes everyone. I know what I want, I have a plan to get there. A plan that I can implement. It doesn't include a body, and a couple thousand dollars of lenses all at once. It does include the lenses at some point down the road, but not immediately.

So, can someone just answer the question? Which of those choices (the only ones I have for now), would have the better chance of producing images better than the others in the choices? Not: What would be better? Canon EF 75-300 F/4.0-5.6 III Lens for $200, or Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L IS USM EF Lens for $2000? The later is not an option for me. I know the answer to that, but it's not one of my choices right now. So Please, of those above, which would be better than the others above?

certx 14 415 1 United States
3 Apr 2007 3:23AM

Quote:70% of my pictures were taken with Canon18-55mm
The lens is wide enough for landscape, not expensive, good quality for very low price. No “L” of course, but…

Smile Thanks Vladimir. I think I've decided that for the shorter lens, I'll go ahead and do the Canon 18-55mm lens. So I guess the only question for me is the longer zoom for now.

culturedcanvas 15 4.7k 59 United Kingdom
3 Apr 2007 3:53AM
You will certainly be disappointed with the prints you create at that size. The file can be upsized from any camera to help aid bigger prints and at those print sizes the lenses you are talking about will result in soft and unsharp shots.

You might not like what people are saying in the way of advice .. but most of it is correct. The lens is more important than the body and your 10mp wont make a blind bit of difference even to the print shop. What they are saying is essentially a load of rubbish ... simply upsize your file prior to working on it .. save at whatever dpi you want .. probably 240 plus would be best. If you can upsize at the raw stage then even better.

I personally would buy an old camera and good lenses for now .. that would mean 300D or 350D as your budget doesnt stretch to a used 20D. Lens wise ? either 17-85 USM is - not a great lens but way better than the kit lens. All of the 70-300's lack quality at this price so buy one .. use it .. but dont expect amazing results. Just practise your sharpening skills post processing !!

If i WAS going to buy one of your three?? well .. then it would be package A.

My other suggestion would be a used 300D, 24-70mm F2.8 Sigma (used)(or tamrons 28-75mm f2.8) and a 70-200mm F4 L canon (used) if you can stretch to it. The total 3's value on that should be around £700-750 ... not a bad bit of kit for the money and will produce better prints at the size you require than any of your current package options. Then when you have more cash you upgrade the body and you are away ..

certx 14 415 1 United States
3 Apr 2007 4:08AM
I'm not arguing the advice. It's sound advice, I agree. Whole heartedly. But I can freaking add. Yes, Curtis can add. No matter how you do the math, it's cheaper to buy 2 cheap lenses now, and 2 better lenses later, than it is to buy 2 camera bodies. As for used? No. I could do that. But I'm not going to buy someone else used equipment, not yours or anyone elses. I don't know what they've done with it. I don't know how it's been treated. I would have no warranty, etc etc etc etc and the list continues about the negatives there... as well as how many shutter releases there's been etc etc etc. So, as I said, I could go down a bit in camera, but then have to upgrade it. Where is there any kind of logic in that? I do, however, appreciate you finally getting to an answer in there.

certx 14 415 1 United States
3 Apr 2007 4:19AM
DID ANYONE ACTUALLY READ THE ORIGINAL POST?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Which would you choose if this was your first dSLR, and you wanted the extended range of the XX-300 zoom, as well as the standard kit lens that comes with the camera? AND, couldn't afford *****at this particular time***** to lay out the extra $$ for better lenses right away, but still wanted to get to experience the longer zoom *****until you could go for a higher end set.***** So,the purchase WILL be one of the above packages... just looking for which would be the better choice of the three.

For all of those who offered advice, I do appreciate it, but please hear me. I CAN'T DO WHAT YOU ARE ADVISING! I TRULY TRULY TRULY TRULY TRULY WISH I COULD.

WHAT IS UNCLEAR ABOUT THAT? I thought even the implication was clear that the intent was to buy better quality lenses at a later date! Thereby implying an understanding that none of those choices were ideal.... BUT THAT THEY WERE THE ONLY CHOICES FOR ME AT THE TIME.

mattw 17 5.2k 10 United Kingdom
3 Apr 2007 5:02AM
Woa, steady on there Curtis! We are only trying to help.

If you want to by new, then the 400D does have many advantages over the 350D - improved AF system, bigger screen. Just don't to see any real difference in having 2MP extra.

Maybe some other members on here have experence in producing prints this large from a 350D/400D. One thing is for certain - you should see a quantum leap in quality over your Canon S3.

Wheather you get the 350D or 400D, you will certinally need to enlarge the images (in photoshop for example) before printing out at 22x17.

Of your choices - I would go for Packege A. Forget about the 'wide angle convortor' thingy, and if possible exchange the Canon 70-300 for the Sigma 70-300.

Also, how are you covered for memory cards? Tripod? Extra battery?
PatrickSmith 16 1.2k 2 United States
3 Apr 2007 5:08AM


Chill Curtis!

From what I can tell here, you need a minimum of a 400D, so just read the reviews of each lens and based on your needs, get the package that suits your needs. You will only get anecdotal advice on such a wide variety of lenses, since only reviewers would have tried most of these personally.

rossd 18 1.1k England
5 Apr 2007 10:25PM

Quote:DID ANYONE ACTUALLY READ THE ORIGINAL POST?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I fully sympathise. Whilst there are many well meaning people some are over enthusiastic and get carried away. Also, some of the info you get (not necessarily in this thread)is definitely suspect mainly because some people like to show off. Me? - well I'm a dedicated Canon man(I started with an AE-1!) and I'd go for Package A - I've used both lenses (on a 20D) previously and both gave excellent results with no obvious failings. I've never used a converter though and personally I wouldn't bother as with the sensor size of the 400D you get the equivalent of 450mm approx. from the 75-300 (as Steve mentioned earlier).

But why should you take any notice of me? - you don't know me and I could be lying! Your call.
Superficial 14 147
5 Apr 2007 10:31PM
The obvious choice is to change your print shop. Their rules seem stupid. With that hurdle out of the way, you could spend your money on decent equipment!
certx 14 415 1 United States
8 Apr 2007 3:13AM
Ok, having relaxed a bit for a while, I am wondering how much of the reference to better lenses, is "sort of" that dreaded thing I've been warned against in deciding the camera body.... that being "pixel peeping", I think is the correct term? ... I mean I don't expect anyone seeing my pictures to be standing within a foot of the pictures glaring at edges etc. In fact, I expect the closest viewing to be somewhere around 2 to 3 feet minimum distance... in all honesty, probably closer to 5 feet. Just wondering how much it will matter.... after all, if a couple million pixels don't matter in image quality, then a bit soft around the edges probably won't either at that distance. It's not as though I'll be trying to sell the pictures.

And.... Ross, thank you very much for your straight forward answer.... assuming, of course, that you're NOT lying. Smile I prefer to try to give people the benefit of the doubt in that arena, and wait to see how it pans out.

My apologies to everyone else... This has just simply been a very frustrating endeavor... as I hadn't been able to find any actual lens reviews of anything that wasn't already out of my price range. I did finally (today) find a couple sites that have quite a large list of professional reviews for lenses.... but until today, I really hadn't been able to find anything that was even remotely helpful in that regard. So, by the time I asked in here, my frustration level was already pretty much astronomical. Anyway... apologies for losing it.


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