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Is this a fair comment?

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Reason : I did this time ;-)


starliz 16 1.6k 3 England
3 Oct 2004 12:41PM
Hi sara hope you are in a more positive mood.
I think Joes comments seemed fair I do not really understand enough YET... to give a fair comment but I would have been very happy that someone with Joes obvious ability commented on it.
I got told one of mine was ugly maybe justified comment but it still hurt till Eric kindly reminded me that photography is subjective.
Keep Clicking
Liz
creative_sara 16 647
3 Oct 2004 1:13PM
Ok well thank you all for your valued points.

I have being mulliing over the subject all morning wondering whether to make any more comments or keep quiet, but decided I would.

I was not trying to slate Joe (as has been possibly hinted at) by posting his comment onto a thread, but I believe the forum is a place for open discussion and he has as much in the right to his views as I have to mine. I merely wanted to have other opinions hence opening the thread, maybe this is wrong who knows.

Admittedly the picture must carry more weight for me as my son is in it, but equally I would like him to look at a picture like this and understand why I feel strongly about it.

I think the area that perhaps upset me was the comment that if this picture had an EC it would be having a joke. I have looked through a vast range of pictures on there and admittedly they are both technically excellent and artistic and warrent them and obviously my picture is not either to Pete (who again has his own opinion which I am not slatting before anyone says anything). To me the picture if I can stand back and be objective which I am trying, was both colourful and had a story of impact which is what I wanted to tell so to have been in that league of EC would have been an honour as to me some picrures on there do tell a story and make you think.

On the subject of putting a child against a wall and snapping away, in today's society this is not possible hence I am lucky to have my son (poor boy) as a willing helper in my photographic development to be there. If I'd just snapped away and then published the picture, I could have been in alot of trouble.
autarky 16 339
3 Oct 2004 2:03PM
Looking at Joe's comments they are all valid and valuable but there is a sarcy edge to his delivery of them which would be recognised as humour in male circles. If I gave advice to my wife in that tone the pots would be flying all over the place. You talk to men one way and to women more tactfully to avoid upsetting them (although some guys on epz are quite sensitive to male-talk critiques as well). But in the end Sara, if you go into any job these days where you are competing with men on the same terms you have to adapt as well to some extent. Joe's comments were well-meant but not well put. I can see why you were upset. Buck up lass and get back to your camera - it is therapeutic!

Joe: "There is danger in taking a tiger cub, and there is danger in destroying a woman's illusions" - Sherlock Holmes.
UserDeleted 17 3.6k
3 Oct 2004 2:54PM
Sara

To conclude on my part.

1) An EC is a type of recognition. It's only criteria is that it is a shot that Pete likes. This may be the only site you contribute to but nice as it would be to get EC's - it is not the be all and end all. There are other measures of success, other awards, other reasons for feeling good about a photograph.

2) I still think you are placing more emphasis on the importance of this shot than maybe it deserves. Either because you really thought about what you were trying to achieve, because your son is in it, or because you thought you might have an award winner. It is a nice photograph, it could be used used commerically, but it is probably not gritty enough to be an award winning social issues shot. At some point in the future you may agree with me - maybe not (I'm not saying you have to by the way!).

3) Post photographs in the gallery, ask and answer questions in the forum. To me there is a worry that forum traffic could suddenly become dominated by "look at my pic" posts. You were right to ask about how you could get it used in a campaign in the forums - again I'm not so sure about opening up the debate on the critique of the shot here (all IMHO of course).

4) With family photographs we are always going to have an attachment beyond what anyone else will see. Using them as models is useful (your comment about photographing children, mine about modelling release) but runs the risk of exposing photographs of them to critiques - which in turn can be regarded by the photographer as a critique of them, or the model. Sometimes I think it is best to keep the two things separate - at least when putting them up in a gallery such as this...



Mike.
tiptoe 16 267
3 Oct 2004 3:07PM
I've read right through this thread and as I see it Joe was simply being helpful. It was very unfair of Sara to complain in this very public way.
He's a pro he knows what he's talking about and his time is money. If I wanted to get into the business I'd be extremely grateful to have that kind of experience on my side.
I'd guess he wont be offering any more help so it's Sara's loss.
Merlin♥
tezza 16 569 United Kingdom
4 Oct 2004 11:36AM
Wowwww!!!

It's amazing how some pictures / comments can attract so much attention. The end result is a picture which had previously been viewed an average amount of times with the average amount of clicks, suddenly being thrown into the limelight and getting an unprecedented amount of attention and clicks...

Having just read through all the comments, I agree with most of them. You put your pictures up for commenting and you have to accept what people say - even if you don't necessarily agree with them Wink

If people have taken the time to comment, one should be thankful that they did so - a lot of excellent pictures get hardly any comments or clicks at all.

As for the picture, I looked at it when the first message went up and have now looked at it again. As some have already said, the exposure and composition are good but as a photograph, I personally don't think it deserves all the attention that it has received. Yes the message is good but it's nothing we have not seen before so no click from me I'm afraid.

Terry
heidilee 16 901
4 Oct 2004 11:44AM
I read Joe's comment before this thread had been posted and I agreed with him.

I guess this shows us that we should re-read things before allowing them to upset us. Text lacks the meaning that the spoken word can show, and therefore make comprehension a little difficult.

Advice is like gold in this type of work. Especially when coming from a pro.

More importantly, forget it and move on.

Heidi
Carabosse 17 41.5k 270 England
4 Oct 2004 11:50AM
I wonder if we should just lay this to rest now?

Virtually everyone has supported Joe and Sara has made her response too.
bpa 16 1.2k
4 Oct 2004 11:54AM
No way is CB having the last word!
digicammad 17 22.0k 39 United Kingdom
4 Oct 2004 11:59AM
I'll second that! oops
digicammad 17 22.0k 39 United Kingdom
4 Oct 2004 11:59AM
doubled
4 Oct 2004 12:00PM
Doesnt Pete normally get the last word? Wink
Carabosse 17 41.5k 270 England
4 Oct 2004 12:12PM
Not always!

Grin
strawman 16 22.1k 16 United Kingdom
4 Oct 2004 12:12PM
This is like a Status Quo record, each time it slows to a stop it starts again