LR5 to Elements 10

Can anyone tell me why after editing in LR5,I then transfer my image to elements,the picture looks more crisp and sharp than in LR5 Also will I get a better quality print if I print as a raw file in LR5.

Can anyone tell me why after editing in LR5,I then transfer my image to elements,the picture looks more crisp and sharp than in LR5
Also will I get a better quality print if I print as a raw file in LR5.

I would check your settings in both LR and Elements.

I would check your settings in both LR and Elements.

Maybe you have output sharpening switched on under 'Export'? As far as I know you can't preview output sharpening in Lightroom. Sharpening is based on Bruce Fraser's 3-stage sharpening theory - you can preview the first 2 (i.e. capture sharpening and creative sharpening). Otherwise, viewing images at different zoom magnifications may have some effect on perceived sharpness, as anything lower than 100% relies on interpolation.

Maybe you have output sharpening switched on under 'Export'?

As far as I know you can't preview output sharpening in Lightroom. Sharpening is based on Bruce Fraser's 3-stage sharpening theory - you can preview the first 2 (i.e. capture sharpening and creative sharpening).

Otherwise, viewing images at different zoom magnifications may have some effect on perceived sharpness, as anything lower than 100% relies on interpolation.

[quote]Also will I get a better quality print if I print as a raw file in LR5.[/quote] Well, it would certainly be easier and you would have a lot more control over sizing, borders, ICC paper profiles etc. and one of the advantages is you can create printing templates so that you do not have to set all the parameters up every time, just select the image, go to print print module, select the preset, print ! !

Quote:Also will I get a better quality print if I print as a raw file in LR5.

Well, it would certainly be easier and you would have a lot more control over sizing, borders, ICC paper profiles etc. and one of the advantages is you can create printing templates so that you do not have to set all the parameters up every time, just select the image, go to print print module, select the preset, print ! !

This is one of the failings of Lightroom imo,sharpening and clarity adjustments don't appear to be applied when viewing in the 'Library' mode,so can't be used as a viewing application in this mode.If you select an image you have sharpened/applied clarity to,and toggle between Library and Development modes you can see the results of this.It's a great raw conversion tool though so you are better exporting to some other software to view.

This is one of the failings of Lightroom imo,sharpening and clarity adjustments don't appear to be applied when viewing in the 'Library' mode,so can't be used as a viewing application in this mode.If you select an image you have sharpened/applied clarity to,and toggle between Library and Development modes you can see the results of this.It's a great raw conversion tool though so you are better exporting to some other software to view.

None of the sharpening you can currently see in Lightroom is output sharpening, so if you intend finishing the file as a rendered image in Photoshop—where you can see all sharpening in real time—you wouldn't want to apply output sharpening in LR. However, output sharpening in Lightroom is derived from PhotoKit Sharpener (the work of Fraser, Schewe, Evening, & other experts), which is always likely to do a good job. I read a long time ago that Adobe were working on improved sharpening previews (which are also less than ideal in Photoshop - 'print view' was even removed for a while from Photoshop CC). That's one area that will likely change, eventually. You can improve matters in Photoshop by plugging your screen resolution into preferences, otherwise 'print view' (now 'print size' in CC) assumes a 72ppi screen.

None of the sharpening you can currently see in Lightroom is output sharpening, so if you intend finishing the file as a rendered image in Photoshop—where you can see all sharpening in real time—you wouldn't want to apply output sharpening in LR. However, output sharpening in Lightroom is derived from PhotoKit Sharpener (the work of Fraser, Schewe, Evening, & other experts), which is always likely to do a good job.

I read a long time ago that Adobe were working on improved sharpening previews (which are also less than ideal in Photoshop - 'print view' was even removed for a while from Photoshop CC). That's one area that will likely change, eventually. You can improve matters in Photoshop by plugging your screen resolution into preferences, otherwise 'print view' (now 'print size' in CC) assumes a 72ppi screen.

[quote]This is one of the failings of Lightroom imo,sharpening and clarity adjustments don't appear to be applied when viewing in the 'Library' mode,so can't be used as a viewing application in this mode.If you select an image you have sharpened/applied clarity to,and toggle between Library and Development modes you can see the results of this.It's a great raw conversion tool though so you are better exporting to some other software to view.[/quote] I must say that I was surprised and puzzled by your claim as I had not noticed this myself. So I just applied sharpening to a Raw file which I could see clearly from the before and after in the development mode (you do see the sharpening in real time). When switching back to the Library mode, the display is updated in a fraction of a second to look exactly like that I saw in the development mode. I find the Library of LR mode excellent for viewing which is what it is intended for. I would agree that only light sharpening should generally be applied at early stage and output sharpening should be left to the last action which may be in PS or Elements. Many plug-ins by Topaz and Nik alter the contrast and structure so little or no further sharpening may be required, if you use these Plug-ins. You never see a display or histogram directly of a Raw file as it has to be rendered to display or print. The display that you see in LR is normally a rendered version of the image using all of the editing steps up to that point. When importing Raw files, I recommend that you set the Preview to Standard or 1:1 or you may be looking a the embedded JPEG rather than the rendered Raw file. Dave

Quote:This is one of the failings of Lightroom imo,sharpening and clarity adjustments don't appear to be applied when viewing in the 'Library' mode,so can't be used as a viewing application in this mode.If you select an image you have sharpened/applied clarity to,and toggle between Library and Development modes you can see the results of this.It's a great raw conversion tool though so you are better exporting to some other software to view.


I must say that I was surprised and puzzled by your claim as I had not noticed this myself. So I just applied sharpening to a Raw file which I could see clearly from the before and after in the development mode (you do see the sharpening in real time). When switching back to the Library mode, the display is updated in a fraction of a second to look exactly like that I saw in the development mode. I find the Library of LR mode excellent for viewing which is what it is intended for. I would agree that only light sharpening should generally be applied at early stage and output sharpening should be left to the last action which may be in PS or Elements. Many plug-ins by Topaz and Nik alter the contrast and structure so little or no further sharpening may be required, if you use these Plug-ins.

You never see a display or histogram directly of a Raw file as it has to be rendered to display or print. The display that you see in LR is normally a rendered version of the image using all of the editing steps up to that point. When importing Raw files, I recommend that you set the Preview to Standard or 1:1 or you may be looking a the embedded JPEG rather than the rendered Raw file.

Dave

All sharpening is visible in real time except output sharpening, which is likely why the OP notices a difference between LR and Elements. The sharpening slider in the develop module applies capture sharpening (or not, if you choose to set it at zero). 'Creative sharpening' can be applied with the brush tool (the second possible phase in Bruce Fraser's sharpening theory of over a decade ago).

All sharpening is visible in real time except output sharpening, which is likely why the OP notices a difference between LR and Elements. The sharpening slider in the develop module applies capture sharpening (or not, if you choose to set it at zero). 'Creative sharpening' can be applied with the brush tool (the second possible phase in Bruce Fraser's sharpening theory of over a decade ago).

I have two linked questions: one to the OP: are you using 'Export' of 'Edit in'. The other is if you use the 'Edit in' command in LR, does LR apply output sharpening - it seems to me odd that it would given that you are using 'Edit in' to do the post processing beyond what you see in the preview screen.

I have two linked questions: one to the OP: are you using 'Export' of 'Edit in'. The other is if you use the 'Edit in' command in LR, does LR apply output sharpening - it seems to me odd that it would given that you are using 'Edit in' to do the post processing beyond what you see in the preview screen.

Lightroom only applies output sharpening if you tick the appropriate box during export, or when printing. It doesn't do it if you're 'editing in' other software. In that instance it'll only include any capture or creative sharpening you've applied (i.e. the sharpening that is possible using the develop module).

Lightroom only applies output sharpening if you tick the appropriate box during export, or when printing. It doesn't do it if you're 'editing in' other software. In that instance it'll only include any capture or creative sharpening you've applied (i.e. the sharpening that is possible using the develop module).

[quote]I must say that I was surprised and puzzled by your claim as I had not noticed this myself. So I just applied sharpening to a Raw file which I could see clearly from the before and after in the development mode (you do see the sharpening in real time). When switching back to the Library mode, the display is updated in a fraction of a second to look exactly like that I saw in the development mode. I find the Library of LR mode excellent for viewing which is what it is intended for. I would agree that only light sharpening should generally be applied at early stage and output sharpening should be left to the last action which may be in PS or Elements. Many plug-ins by Topaz and Nik alter the contrast and structure so little or no further sharpening may be required, if you use these Plug-ins. You never see a display or histogram directly of a Raw file as it has to be rendered to display or print. The display that you see in LR is normally a rendered version of the image using all of the editing steps up to that point. When importing Raw files, I recommend that you set the Preview to Standard or 1:1 or you may be looking a the embedded JPEG rather than the rendered Raw file.[/quote] You may well be right, and perhaps I have something set on my preferences which shouldn't be(though I don't think this is the case),all I can say is that this is my experience of using Lightroom which appears to coincide with the OP.However, I own and still use a Nikon D100 and I have to say the symptoms are more obvious when using this and my other low megapixel cameras than when using my 16 megapixel camera. John

Quote:I must say that I was surprised and puzzled by your claim as I had not noticed this myself. So I just applied sharpening to a Raw file which I could see clearly from the before and after in the development mode (you do see the sharpening in real time). When switching back to the Library mode, the display is updated in a fraction of a second to look exactly like that I saw in the development mode. I find the Library of LR mode excellent for viewing which is what it is intended for. I would agree that only light sharpening should generally be applied at early stage and output sharpening should be left to the last action which may be in PS or Elements. Many plug-ins by Topaz and Nik alter the contrast and structure so little or no further sharpening may be required, if you use these Plug-ins.

You never see a display or histogram directly of a Raw file as it has to be rendered to display or print. The display that you see in LR is normally a rendered version of the image using all of the editing steps up to that point. When importing Raw files, I recommend that you set the Preview to Standard or 1:1 or you may be looking a the embedded JPEG rather than the rendered Raw file.



You may well be right, and perhaps I have something set on my preferences which shouldn't be(though I don't think this is the case),all I can say is that this is my experience of using Lightroom which appears to coincide with the OP.However, I own and still use a Nikon D100 and I have to say the symptoms are more obvious when using this and my other low megapixel cameras than when using my 16 megapixel camera.

John