Macron opts for compulsory vaccination

Well, almost. Compulsory for health workers and vaccination cert required for theatres, museums, sports venues and the like, and also for restaurants and eventually - shops. So effectively compulsory. I'm sure many will scream "violation of right to choose" but I'm in favour. Vaccination is never risk free, but in this case the risk seems minimal, the protection well proven and the public interest unquestionable.

Well, almost. Compulsory for health workers and vaccination cert required for theatres, museums, sports venues and the like, and also for restaurants and eventually - shops. So effectively compulsory.
I'm sure many will scream "violation of right to choose" but I'm in favour. Vaccination is never risk free, but in this case the risk seems minimal, the protection well proven and the public interest unquestionable.

Better than here in the England where the Government is about to let the virus rip through society, without even waiting for the vaccination program to be completed with approx 7million without any jab and a further 10 million with only one jab and that’s just the adults Additionally they are not telling those who won’t have the vaccine to get jabbed as the virus will go around everywhere, they should be threatening them in order to improve numbers, nor do they appear to be making any arrangements or advising those who can’t have the jab or who are at severe risk what to do to protect themselves, didn’t know Pontius Pilate was a blond

Better than here in the England where the Government is about to let the virus rip through society, without even waiting for the vaccination program to be completed with approx 7million without any jab and a further 10 million with only one jab and that’s just the adults

Additionally they are not telling those who won’t have the vaccine to get jabbed as the virus will go around everywhere, they should be threatening them in order to improve numbers, nor do they appear to be making any arrangements or advising those who can’t have the jab or who are at severe risk what to do to protect themselves, didn’t know Pontius Pilate was a blond

I'm a firm believer in proper messaging on the benefits of vaccination. If you have to force people then you have your messaging wrong. Although you will never persuade an anti vaxer, governments do need to overcome the reasons people are not getting vaccinated. I do think its right that everyone including children be vaccinated, this government is doing the most unethical experiment on the younger generations.

I'm a firm believer in proper messaging on the benefits of vaccination. If you have to force people then you have your messaging wrong. Although you will never persuade an anti vaxer, governments do need to overcome the reasons people are not getting vaccinated. I do think its right that everyone including children be vaccinated, this government is doing the most unethical experiment on the younger generations.

I was initially in favour of a pseudo compulsory approach by restricting activities, such as only be able to enter or reenter the country if you've been vaccinated. That's everyone wanting a holiday getting done. But then where do you stand on the small number who have adverse reactions and, after all, no other vaccine is mandated. I more with the clear message - The vaccine is available and works. If you choose to decline it's protection you do so in the full knowledge that society is going back to normal and you run the risk of serious illness from C-19. The NHS will do it's best to look after you should you become ill. If you change this decision please contact your GP. I think, pretty much, this is the official line just not very clear.

I was initially in favour of a pseudo compulsory approach by restricting activities, such as only be able to enter or reenter the country if you've been vaccinated. That's everyone wanting a holiday getting done.
But then where do you stand on the small number who have adverse reactions and, after all, no other vaccine is mandated.

I more with the clear message - The vaccine is available and works. If you choose to decline it's protection you do so in the full knowledge that society is going back to normal and you run the risk of serious illness from C-19. The NHS will do it's best to look after you should you become ill. If you change this decision please contact your GP.

I think, pretty much, this is the official line just not very clear.

To put that into perspective, of that 7 million; let's assume that that figure's accurate, how many are in a position where not being vaccinated might lead to something serious and how many are, for example, teenagers who, even if they do manage to catch it, almost certainly won't know that they've caught it? Sweeping generalisations don't really mean much. Regarding "not telling those who won’t have the vaccine to get jabbed," they're refusing for reasons, misguided or otherwise, of their own and if they're not going to "get jabbed" then there's not much point in telling them to. I'm not sure what arrangements the government might make or what advice they could provide for anyone who genuinely can't have the jab or those that are at severe risk that they haven't already provided.

To put that into perspective, of that 7 million; let's assume that that figure's accurate, how many are in a position where not being vaccinated might lead to something serious and how many are, for example, teenagers who, even if they do manage to catch it, almost certainly won't know that they've caught it?

Sweeping generalisations don't really mean much.

Regarding "not telling those who won’t have the vaccine to get jabbed," they're refusing for reasons, misguided or otherwise, of their own and if they're not going to "get jabbed" then there's not much point in telling them to.

I'm not sure what arrangements the government might make or what advice they could provide for anyone who genuinely can't have the jab or those that are at severe risk that they haven't already provided.

As a government you need to force, and by this I mean denying them access or freedom privileges or much better persuade them by being open and honest and telling them that what you are actually doing by removing all legal restrictions, is letting the virus loose in society, because at the moment it’s just about contained and has been with lock downs since the start, now there nothing to stop it and a lot of people are still at higher risk The government will know or should know how many of each age group haven’t been jabbed, they will also know what sort of death rate or risk of serious illness/hospitalisation those age groups will be facing and they should publish and publicise them because whilst the the risks are statistically exactly the same as the other waves infection may be a lot more likely or even certain I appreciate that we have to live with the virus, and opening up will have to happen but this is too early and I fear it might not end well at all

As a government you need to force, and by this I mean denying them access or freedom privileges or much better persuade them by being open and honest and telling them that what you are actually doing by removing all legal restrictions, is letting the virus loose in society, because at the moment it’s just about contained and has been with lock downs since the start, now there nothing to stop it and a lot of people are still at higher risk

The government will know or should know how many of each age group haven’t been jabbed, they will also know what sort of death rate or risk of serious illness/hospitalisation those age groups will be facing and they should publish and publicise them because whilst the the risks are statistically exactly the same as the other waves infection may be a lot more likely or even certain

I appreciate that we have to live with the virus, and opening up will have to happen but this is too early and I fear it might not end well at all

[quote]If you choose to decline it's protection you do so in the full knowledge that society is going back to normal and you run the risk of serious illness from C-19[/quote]. Unvaccinated provide a risk to our communities as well as themselves. [quote]I think, pretty much, this is the official line just not very clear.[/quote]Its generally never clear, but I think that's the intention. Sweeping generalisations .. that's made me laugh that has... lol

Quote:If you choose to decline it's protection you do so in the full knowledge that society is going back to normal and you run the risk of serious illness from C-19
. Unvaccinated provide a risk to our communities as well as themselves.


Quote:I think, pretty much, this is the official line just not very clear.
Its generally never clear, but I think that's the intention.

Sweeping generalisations .. that's made me laugh that has... lol

As an old fart, I despair of the usage of the English language by these so called "educated" politicians. Surely when one is vaccinated you are "vaccinated" not "jabbed"

As an old fart, I despair of the usage of the English language by these so called "educated" politicians.
Surely when one is vaccinated you are "vaccinated" not "jabbed"

My own opinion about this is that Boris was quite content at the very start to let the virus just rip through the population, until the WHO actually pointed out the dangers of this. Dominic Cummings in his 'report' to the parliamentary commission was quite clear that this was Boris's immediate reaction. I also think that Matt Hancock was a lot more aware of the dangers of a return to 'normal' - which Sajid David, immediately upon taking office, said 'It was damaging to people's mental health to remain under lockdown or with restrictive rules'. So in spite of Senior doctors and health officials saying this is too soon they have decided that it is 'as good a time as any'! Actually I think Sajid David has decided and Boris has gone along with it - anything for a quiet life. I fully understand the problems of isolation for people or lack of connection with people, and yes \I am quite sure there has been an increase in mental health problems. But the situation we are in at this point of time means that anyone who is suffering can be seen, although normal services haven't been resumed there is still an increase of contact between people, folk are going out and meeting friends and family in small groups. Surely common sense should tell us that with 34000 new cases yesterday and 36000 today increases are going at a rapid speed. whilst the vaccination helps to prevent death there are many who will still be very seriously ill and there will also be an increase in deaths. Everyone should bear in mind what Boris said a very short while ago (although he seems to have forgotten it) 'No-one is safe until we are all safe.' No-one knows what new variants will develop, no-one can foretell if the vaccination will continue to work or for how long, and how many variants it will fight. No-one knows how many of the people, who will now catch the virus, will suffer from long covid and what the long term effects of that will be. Balancing the risks is something we should be relying on our Government to do and err on the side of caution. Those who are fully able to balance the risks for themselves will do so (yes you Jester) but for those who are unable to - the elderly and infirm and totally alone and the handicapped, disabled and with leaning disabilities will be totally unable to balance their own needs with the sometimes rash and indiscriminate actions of others. 'The survival of the fittest'!

My own opinion about this is that Boris was quite content at the very start to let the virus just rip through the population, until the WHO actually pointed out the dangers of this. Dominic Cummings in his 'report' to the parliamentary commission was quite clear that this was Boris's immediate reaction. I also think that Matt Hancock was a lot more aware of the dangers of a return to 'normal' - which Sajid David, immediately upon taking office, said 'It was damaging to people's mental health to remain under lockdown or with restrictive rules'. So in spite of Senior doctors and health officials saying this is too soon they have decided that it is 'as good a time as any'! Actually I think Sajid David has decided and Boris has gone along with it - anything for a quiet life. I fully understand the problems of isolation for people or lack of connection with people, and yes \I am quite sure there has been an increase in mental health problems. But the situation we are in at this point of time means that anyone who is suffering can be seen, although normal services haven't been resumed there is still an increase of contact between people, folk are going out and meeting friends and family in small groups. Surely common sense should tell us that with 34000 new cases yesterday and 36000 today increases are going at a rapid speed. whilst the vaccination helps to prevent death there are many who will still be very seriously ill and there will also be an increase in deaths. Everyone should bear in mind what Boris said a very short while ago (although he seems to have forgotten it) 'No-one is safe until we are all safe.'

No-one knows what new variants will develop, no-one can foretell if the vaccination will continue to work or for how long, and how many variants it will fight. No-one knows how many of the people, who will now catch the virus, will suffer from long covid and what the long term effects of that will be. Balancing the risks is something we should be relying on our Government to do and err on the side of caution. Those who are fully able to balance the risks for themselves will do so (yes you Jester) but for those who are unable to - the elderly and infirm and totally alone and the handicapped, disabled and with leaning disabilities will be totally unable to balance their own needs with the sometimes rash and indiscriminate actions of others. 'The survival of the fittest'!

I wholeheartedly agree with you Angie. Although one good thing is that there is high confidence in the vaccine to take on any variants of this virus. Science at least, will come through for us even if the leader of this country will not. If news this morning is true about why he wants to remove the mandatory requirement for masks then he gets more shameful as each day passes. Its exhausting.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Angie. Although one good thing is that there is high confidence in the vaccine to take on any variants of this virus. Science at least, will come through for us even if the leader of this country will not.

If news this morning is true about why he wants to remove the mandatory requirement for masks then he gets more shameful as each day passes. Its exhausting.

There seems to be considerable misunderstanding in this thread. THREE WEEKS AFTER a single jab there is about 35% protection - and after two jabs about 85% protection - making the position for protection calculation around 23rd June the relevant date. About 5% cannot have a vaccine on medical grounds - and some choose not to have jabs. We are unlikely to reached a point where more than 75% of the population are fully protected - meaning 25% will still be vulnerable. Of the 25% still vulnerable at least 40% will be over 60 or have serious health risks. As the forecasts predict, it seems inevitable hospitalisation and deaths will increase particularly among over 60's and those with underlying health conditions - especially compared to assumptions by many two jabs is the end of Covid risk.

There seems to be considerable misunderstanding in this thread.

THREE WEEKS AFTER a single jab there is about 35% protection - and after two jabs about 85% protection - making the position for protection calculation around 23rd June the relevant date.
About 5% cannot have a vaccine on medical grounds - and some choose not to have jabs.

We are unlikely to reached a point where more than 75% of the population are fully protected - meaning 25% will still be vulnerable.
Of the 25% still vulnerable at least 40% will be over 60 or have serious health risks.

As the forecasts predict, it seems inevitable hospitalisation and deaths will increase particularly among over 60's and those with underlying health conditions - especially compared to assumptions by many two jabs is the end of Covid risk.

[quote]As the forecasts predict, it seems inevitable hospitalisation and deaths will increase particularly among over 60's and those with underlying health conditions - especially compared to assumptions by many two jabs is the end of Covid risk.[/quote]No one has said that.

Quote:As the forecasts predict, it seems inevitable hospitalisation and deaths will increase particularly among over 60's and those with underlying health conditions - especially compared to assumptions by many two jabs is the end of Covid risk.
No one has said that.

[quote] If news this morning is true about why he wants to remove the mandatory requirement for masks [/quote] What news is that please? I haven't seen that.

Quote:

If news this morning is true about why he wants to remove the mandatory requirement for masks

What news is that please?
I haven't seen that.

Vaccinations are only allowed if you have an NHS number - so another question is - "how many people in the UK are not registered with the NHS" All these people are at risk and also contributing to the risk of being spreaders when they first get infected. As travel restrictions loosen how many new people will Visit for education, travel, migration, business etc. Is proof of Vaccination or a Jab going to be their only options? I'm double jabbed and expect a probable booster this autumn, yet still expect to get Covid every few years and trust that the NHS will do the best they can to minimise impact if the infection becomes serious. But it seems that unless we also have plans for transient or unregistered people to also get jabbed there will still be unnecessary deaths and extra infections will continue for longer than would otherwise be the case. p.s. I'm glad to hear Masks are mandatory for London commuter travel, i wish this could also be done on commuter routes into London.

Vaccinations are only allowed if you have an NHS number - so another question is - "how many people in the UK are not registered with the NHS" All these people are at risk and also contributing to the risk of being spreaders when they first get infected.
As travel restrictions loosen how many new people will Visit for education, travel, migration, business etc. Is proof of Vaccination or a Jab going to be their only options?

I'm double jabbed and expect a probable booster this autumn, yet still expect to get Covid every few years and trust that the NHS will do the best they can to minimise impact if the infection becomes serious. But it seems that unless we also have plans for transient or unregistered people to also get jabbed there will still be unnecessary deaths and extra infections will continue for longer than would otherwise be the case.

p.s. I'm glad to hear Masks are mandatory for London commuter travel, i wish this could also be done on commuter routes into London.

[quote] But it seems that unless we also have plans for transient or unregistered people. [/quote] I don't see that anything can be done. You can't just round them up and vaccinate them. I guess this where herd immunity takes over.

Quote: But it seems that unless we also have plans for transient or unregistered people.


I don't see that anything can be done.
You can't just round them up and vaccinate them.
I guess this where herd immunity takes over.