Not related to photography but hope you can help
Hi All,
I'm sorry this is not directly about photography. I'm mostly an artist now but used to be a photographer before. I have been asked to do illustrations (paintings. not digital illustrations) for a kids' alphabet book series. That means I have to do paintings for 26 booklets with 12 sides in each (including the cover and back). Each book is different to the other (theme, colors, and character).
I have a few questions:
1. How much should I charge for each booklet? I know it varies, but I'm just looking for a base price. I have never done this before.
2. The author wants me to design the book too. That means I have to first do the sketches and then design the book using something like Adobe InDesign, is it?
3. If I have to design the book, I thought I will charge separately for that. Is that reasonable?
Any help will be much appreciated. I know most of you guys here are photographers, but I'm hoping you will have some idea about the going rates in the industry when it comes to a project like this. I'm just looking for a baseline price. I have zero clue.
I'm sorry this is not directly about photography. I'm mostly an artist now but used to be a photographer before. I have been asked to do illustrations (paintings. not digital illustrations) for a kids' alphabet book series. That means I have to do paintings for 26 booklets with 12 sides in each (including the cover and back). Each book is different to the other (theme, colors, and character).
I have a few questions:
1. How much should I charge for each booklet? I know it varies, but I'm just looking for a base price. I have never done this before.
2. The author wants me to design the book too. That means I have to first do the sketches and then design the book using something like Adobe InDesign, is it?
3. If I have to design the book, I thought I will charge separately for that. Is that reasonable?
Any help will be much appreciated. I know most of you guys here are photographers, but I'm hoping you will have some idea about the going rates in the industry when it comes to a project like this. I'm just looking for a baseline price. I have zero clue.
I think the person asking will have a budget in mind it's well worth just asking them.
Also think about print runs and image ownership - one off payment or percentage of sales.
At the very minimum think what your hourly rate is as an artist who needs to live, buy paints/software etc and how long almost 300 images is going to take with reviews.
Good luck
Also think about print runs and image ownership - one off payment or percentage of sales.
At the very minimum think what your hourly rate is as an artist who needs to live, buy paints/software etc and how long almost 300 images is going to take with reviews.
Good luck
Mmmmmm!
You ask much.
I too am an Artist who does photography too, both serious hobbies, I have received commissions in the past, but not lately, so out of touch with current practice.
I depends on whether you are fully professional, and having to make a living from your Art.....if you are then any fees you charge should take into consideration all overheads and materials cost and to of time taken.
With the minimum wage being circa £8 per hr, then at least double would be my guide....just think of what your garage charge you per hour for a pro mechanic, plus overheads and VAT.
Should you be an talented amateur like myself, younstill need to consider that the Author/ commissioner is hoping to make a profit from their original idea brought to life via your skills, so payment should be fair and firmly agreed in writing before commencing.
The paper size of the work will make huge differences too.
One way that you might consider is to hold a business meeting with the author/ commissioner, to discuss this in full, you might both consider you receiving shared Royalties from eventual sales.
I still receive small sums on a regular basis for items researched then designed by me 15 or More years ago.
A tricky subject...it is so easy for an Artist to be exploited...because folk think that drawing and painting is fun.....it is seriously hard work that has required much past education coding time and money.
Another suggestion, is to chat to a working commercial Artist for advice.
Hobbo
You ask much.
I too am an Artist who does photography too, both serious hobbies, I have received commissions in the past, but not lately, so out of touch with current practice.
I depends on whether you are fully professional, and having to make a living from your Art.....if you are then any fees you charge should take into consideration all overheads and materials cost and to of time taken.
With the minimum wage being circa £8 per hr, then at least double would be my guide....just think of what your garage charge you per hour for a pro mechanic, plus overheads and VAT.
Should you be an talented amateur like myself, younstill need to consider that the Author/ commissioner is hoping to make a profit from their original idea brought to life via your skills, so payment should be fair and firmly agreed in writing before commencing.
The paper size of the work will make huge differences too.
One way that you might consider is to hold a business meeting with the author/ commissioner, to discuss this in full, you might both consider you receiving shared Royalties from eventual sales.
I still receive small sums on a regular basis for items researched then designed by me 15 or More years ago.
A tricky subject...it is so easy for an Artist to be exploited...because folk think that drawing and painting is fun.....it is seriously hard work that has required much past education coding time and money.
Another suggestion, is to chat to a working commercial Artist for advice.
Hobbo
I would think that it might be advantageous to contact a Children's book publishers to get ideas straight from the horse's mouth as it were. They will know what they pay to have books illustrated.
Quote:Mmmmmm!
A tricky subject...it is so easy for an Artist to be exploited...because folk think that drawing and painting is fun.....it is seriously hard work that has required much past education coding time and money.
Another suggestion, is to chat to a working commercial Artist for advice.
Hobbo
Good feedback.
Trying to quantify costings about 300 illustrations seem to be required.
It is reasonable to presume the book author will ask for a few to be changed - lets assume 320 as part of a back of an envelope costing.
If you can do a single illustration to a good standard in an hour then 320 hours at a reasonable £15 an hour for your skill is £4,800.
The £4800 would usually be plus VAT if a commercial artist is used - with negligible VAT offset for VAT on materials as they will not cost much.
While I think it unreasonable to charge out 100% of the cost of any specific software you could "build-in" maybe £30.
Then perhaps another 10 hours for the computer time with the design - again at £15 an hour. This is a £180 charge for the design aspect.
Put another way if you are going to earn less than £5,000 taxable income you are subsidising the cost of producing the book.
If you are expected to charge perhaps only £1,000 - just say no - at this price what is wanted is completely uneconomic for you.
My "back of an envelope" 330 hours using a 35 hours a week is the equivalent of over 9 weeks working time.
If this was an established book publisher who deals with many illustrators and who was led to you after seeing your work online they would have a budget in mind.
They would have sales projections - and you might consider a royalty deal - I wish I had 5p for every Harry Potter book sold.
I doubt they are an established publisher though. The person who has had the idea for the books is asking you to design them. It sounds like an author who is self-publishing and who doesn't want to do the work.
You shouldn't be laying them out in Indesign, you should just be providing artwork - sounds like you've never done DTP before - it's harder than you think, I designed some, years ago as a novice, and among the usual rookie mistakes I hadn't accounted for pages all being slightly different sizes - there's many more pitfalls.
Is this a one-man band, a dreamer who is going to try to flog them at craft fayres etc, or someone who has written such a brilliant story that schools have ordered £££ of these in advance to replace their iPads?
They would have sales projections - and you might consider a royalty deal - I wish I had 5p for every Harry Potter book sold.
I doubt they are an established publisher though. The person who has had the idea for the books is asking you to design them. It sounds like an author who is self-publishing and who doesn't want to do the work.
You shouldn't be laying them out in Indesign, you should just be providing artwork - sounds like you've never done DTP before - it's harder than you think, I designed some, years ago as a novice, and among the usual rookie mistakes I hadn't accounted for pages all being slightly different sizes - there's many more pitfalls.
Is this a one-man band, a dreamer who is going to try to flog them at craft fayres etc, or someone who has written such a brilliant story that schools have ordered £££ of these in advance to replace their iPads?
Quote:Is this a one-man band, a dreamer who is going to try to flog them at craft fayres etc, or someone who has written such a brilliant story that schools have ordered £££ of these in advance to replace their iPads?
It sounded to me like a self-publishing author who doesn't want to do the work, as you assumed. I do not know anything beyond that. I think I will opt out of the book designing part.
Assuming that I agreed to only do the illustrations, is this how it works?
1. Give her high-resolution images of the illustrations that I did for each book on an agreed price.
2. Before payment, I can send her watermarked, low-resolution samples and after receiving full payment, I shall email her the high-resolution images.
That's a good way to do it, especially with some watermarking.
Unless paid for a full size version of a sample, don't send any more new stuff, you could end up sending dozens and dozens of low res samples, who knows what they might be doing with them. Copying your work or some of your ideas etc.
Going back to what you would charge, first of all look into who will own the rights to the images, try to keep hold of your copyright but granting a licence for the images to be used only in one particular set of books - meaning the work can't end up on Birthday Cards or Calendars or on teaching websites etc without you giving the go-ahead and getting paid more money.
I'm not sure how much to charge, I find pricing difficult. Just make sure you don't make a deal that you end up resenting - a student designed the Nike swoosh logo, think she charged them $50, luckily for her years later Nike honoured her with a gold version of it worth a good bit of cash.
Unless paid for a full size version of a sample, don't send any more new stuff, you could end up sending dozens and dozens of low res samples, who knows what they might be doing with them. Copying your work or some of your ideas etc.
Going back to what you would charge, first of all look into who will own the rights to the images, try to keep hold of your copyright but granting a licence for the images to be used only in one particular set of books - meaning the work can't end up on Birthday Cards or Calendars or on teaching websites etc without you giving the go-ahead and getting paid more money.
I'm not sure how much to charge, I find pricing difficult. Just make sure you don't make a deal that you end up resenting - a student designed the Nike swoosh logo, think she charged them $50, luckily for her years later Nike honoured her with a gold version of it worth a good bit of cash.
At the very minimum calculate how much time you're likely to spend and don't go less than minimum wage. Then add a cost for materials. Then add a markup. You then have a baseline for negotiation.
So you only have to do the illustrations. If you have to design the book too, which you shouldn't but maybe for a future comission you might, Adobe Indesign is expensive if it's a one off. Affinity Publisher is an inexpensive alternative and just as capable. Either way you'dneed to discuss what output file is required.
So you only have to do the illustrations. If you have to design the book too, which you shouldn't but maybe for a future comission you might, Adobe Indesign is expensive if it's a one off. Affinity Publisher is an inexpensive alternative and just as capable. Either way you'dneed to discuss what output file is required.
Quote:Affinity Publisher is an inexpensive alternative and just as capable. Either way you'dneed to discuss what output file is required.
Thanks for the tip. Looks like I have to illustrate the book too. Do you have any advice on setting bleed, margins etc. Also, is it possible to illustrate the book using just photoshop?
I really want this project because it is my first one and I want this experience to give me clues on how to set my prices and project timelines in the future. So, this is like my test project.
Chris, thanks for the warning about page width. Shouldn't the compositor/printer take the page artwork and do the "imposition"? Surely the designer wouldn't be expected to know how many pages constitute the quire.
Quote:Chris, thanks for the warning about page width. Shouldn't the compositor/printer take the page artwork and do the "imposition"? Surely the designer wouldn't be expected to know how many pages constitute the quire.
I was thinking the same. I looked through a load of videos on this and none of them seem to fret too much about margins and page width. They just ask you to create all the pages in the same width in the software. Most discourage adding anything important inside the bleed and within the outer margins of the paper because
1. it looks ugly
2. it might get cropped off at printing
I doubt there's anything else to worry about at the design phase. But, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote:I doubt there's anything else to worry about at the design phase. But, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Would need to know more about your project first. How many, if any, Pantone colours are you using? Are your images CMYK or RGB? Are you embedding fonts or do you plan to convert to outlines. What specs have the printing press given you for Rich Black? Are your books going to be perfect bound, saddle stitched or something else?
Quote:I looked through a load of videos on this and none of them seem to fret too much about margins and page width.
That page creep was just one example, if the videos mean that you are happy to have a go then go for it. There's no way I'd pay someone to layout a series of 26 books for me if I'm doing a large print run and I knew that they had no experience of creating press ready files or laying out books. You could probably blag it, up to you, what's the worst than can happen?
I edit and design the Parish Magazine for our Church, which is 48-56 pages, full colour and with a print run of a few hundred copies.
Programmes like InDesign or Pagemaker allow us to easily make a PDF, which is how our printer likes to receive the magazine. The publication is then dropped into Imposition software which sorts the layout for printing onto large sheets which are folded and trimmed.
As soon as we want Pantone colours that are outside the CMYK gamut, the production cost would rise considerably so this isn't an option for us.
Programmes like InDesign or Pagemaker allow us to easily make a PDF, which is how our printer likes to receive the magazine. The publication is then dropped into Imposition software which sorts the layout for printing onto large sheets which are folded and trimmed.
As soon as we want Pantone colours that are outside the CMYK gamut, the production cost would rise considerably so this isn't an option for us.
I don't want to put you off Desh, I just want you to think carefully about what you are taking on for this person.
I can see how you think it's easy to knock something up in Photoshop and there are lots of cheap online printers who will take anything you send them, PDF, TIFF, even low res jpeg and turn the files into flyers, leaflets and booklets, once you sign off on the proof your stuff comes in the post. Results can vary dramatically and mistakes can be very costly.
Choose a printer in advance Desh, get the Mechanical Specifications from them and create some dummy or practice pdfs and get their feedback, when you know that your software is set up correctly you can start laying out the books.
You need to know your print run before you decide to go for Offset Printing or something more suited to short runs. Have a look here - loads of informative FAQs
I can see how you think it's easy to knock something up in Photoshop and there are lots of cheap online printers who will take anything you send them, PDF, TIFF, even low res jpeg and turn the files into flyers, leaflets and booklets, once you sign off on the proof your stuff comes in the post. Results can vary dramatically and mistakes can be very costly.
Choose a printer in advance Desh, get the Mechanical Specifications from them and create some dummy or practice pdfs and get their feedback, when you know that your software is set up correctly you can start laying out the books.
You need to know your print run before you decide to go for Offset Printing or something more suited to short runs. Have a look here - loads of informative FAQs
