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Printed colours losing magenta


13 Oct 2020 11:52AM
Hi, I have an EIZO monitor that has built in calibration, and in my workflow I believe Im setting all the right options in photoshop to see the image properly. I save files as sRGB and send them to the lab to print, and all was fine for ages. But something has changed in my workflow somewhere, and now my images lack magenta when I post online and when I get them printed!

Is there a good post somewhere here that explains the required setup? Seems really disappointing to have all this expensive gear, and its one job fails dismally.

Kind regards
Julian
13 Oct 2020 12:14PM
Interestingly, when viewed on my iPhone, they match the prints, which at the moment sees my setup out voted 2 to 1.

13 Oct 2020 12:48PM
Just noticed none of the files I sent to the lab had the icc profile embedded. I'm going to send a couple of test prints.
14 Oct 2020 5:07PM
Thanks for all the help Grin
I think Iíve solved it. My monitor wasnít outputting in sRGB. When I switch it to sRGB, what I see on screen does indeed match exactly what the lab printed, which means from now i will be editing on the muted image and so will make them vibrant enough for print and the internet
Philh04 Plus
15 2.2k United Kingdom
15 Oct 2020 8:20AM
Seems you are in a bit of a colour management conundrum. Calibrate your monitor then use soft proofing using your printers supplied profile for the paper being used, adjust till happy, then send them the adjusted file in the sRGB colour space.
15 Oct 2020 3:50PM
Thanks. Yeah Iíve been doing that but my monitor didnít show me what the printer will produce, calibrated it not, unless I set itís output also to sRGB. This allows me to make adjustments that will be represented by the lab when I send them the sRGB files.
Proofing isnít the only concern as it doesnít seem to be something thatís reliable in lightroom when working with the raw files.
I need to see the desired target right from editing in lightroom, and setting the mo it or to sRGB, although crippling the gamut of the monitor, does seem to do the job.
My EIZO colouredge 4K 31Ē has its own calibrator, but although that will handle calibration, what I see on it still depends on the mode I put it in
Philh04 Plus
15 2.2k United Kingdom
15 Oct 2020 4:34PM
Hmm.. I find the soft proofing in lightroom to be one of the best, I generally soft proof using an sRGB profile if the target is display on a screen and my own profiles when printing (in-house). Setting the mode to sRGB or aRGB will over-ride the profile created for the monitor.
As Lightroom works with a linear form of the ProPhoto colour space, limiting the gamut you are viewing could create its own problems.
15 Oct 2020 6:42PM
Yep. I thought I had this nailed long ago, bit itís only that I noticed the prints were coming back lacking punch that I realised something was wrong.
All I know is that I need to see Iím screen something that matches the print, and setting the screen to sRGB seems to do that, but that solution doesnít feel right. It does however match what i also see on my phone when I load the image to say Facebook or my website.

My head hurts lol 😂
15 Oct 2020 6:54PM
Out of interest, how do you soft proof in LR?

If I select the little soft proofing tick box in Develop mode, then change the profile option it presents, all it does it change the background to white and regardless of the setting, the image looks identical?
Philh04 Plus
15 2.2k United Kingdom
15 Oct 2020 8:29PM

Quote:Out of interest, how do you soft proof in LR?

If I select the little soft proofing tick box in Develop mode, then change the profile option it presents, all it does it change the background to white and regardless of the setting, the image looks identical?


Plenty of information on internet, here is one tutorial...

Soft Proofing
15 Oct 2020 10:04PM
Many thanks Phil.

Ok, from what I can tell:
1) I should leave my monitor showing colours in its full glory and not stunt it to sRGB?

2) If I want to export files from Lightroom that are adjusted for the target print, then I use the soft-proofing option along with a profile for the printer and paper, (I guess I need to ask the lab for that?). However, once adjusted to bring back to some life, I need to export them as sRGB files to match my working colour space in PS?

3) In PS I would need to soft-proof the images in the paper choice, and save for print?

Issues:
1) If I want to show the files online as well as be able to print them, then it seems I need two copies out of LR, one that looks good without any proofing, and saved with an sRGB profile, and one that's a too vibrant image, but when sent to the printer will look ok. Surely though I only want to make my PS edits on one copy of the image, which would imply I should only export one image file from LR, but that means that I can't see anything like the image I want in LR?
I can of course push the finished sRGB PS image back to LR as a jpeg and make some adjustments under proofing, but that's not idea surely? Which seems like I should bother with proofing in LR, and just send sRGB file that looks great on screen to PS, then once Ive made all y edits and saved for web etc, make a proof copy in PS, and adjusted in PS for print?

2) The lab tell me to make sure the files have a sRGB profile embedded, not the printer paper icc?


I AM SO CONFUSED lol
15 Oct 2020 10:10PM
Right, I think I'm going to do this:

1) Export from LR as sRGB files, with no proofing, (as I'm going to finish off in PS)
2) Edit in PS, without proofing, to make a master copy for online etc
3) Then make a copy for print, and under proofing, use PS to bring back to live as best as I can

This seems simple enough. Does this sound reasonable, or am I missing something Tongue

Kind regards
Julian
Philh04 Plus
15 2.2k United Kingdom
16 Oct 2020 8:57AM

Quote:The lab tell me to make sure the files have a sRGB profile embedded, not the printer paper icc?


Yes that is correct, the printer/paper profile is only for use in soft proofing in order to match the output better.

I think you seem to be confusing yourself over colour management which doesn't need to be complicated you just need to take the time to understand it.

Any conversion to sRGB should be one of the final things you do, it is far better to edit with the largest gamut you have, if I am going to PS then I round trip all in the ProPhoto colour space. Exporting sRGB is the same as running your monitor in a restricted gamut.

FWIW here is how I would do things....

1. Do what editing you can in Lightroom.

2. Don't export, instead you want to round trip so use 'Edit in'.

3. Do what you need in Photoshop and then save (not save as) the file, leave as a PSD and in the widest gamut. When you save the file it should appear in Lightroom catalogue. This is now your master file in LR.

4. For any variations on that file you now have the option of creating virtual copies which take up no additional storage space.

5. You can now use the superior soft proofing in Lightroom to adjust a virtual copy for your chosen output which can also be suitably named.
16 Oct 2020 3:40PM
Many thanks Phil.
Iíve managed to follow all your latest instructions and I like it 😊
Iíve also managed to get an icc profile from the lab for proofing.
Although the prints came back looking great, it didnít feel right dumbing down the excellent monitor to do so
Many thanks again 😊

Jules
Philh04 Plus
15 2.2k United Kingdom
16 Oct 2020 4:52PM
You are more than welcome...

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