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Should we have to pay to use the NHS?


thewilliam2 2 1.3k
4 Dec 2019 3:57PM
One political leader was calling for us to be charged to use the NHS, and the example was a 50 fee to call an ambulance. I was under the impression that our National Insurance Contributions were to fund pensions, NHS and Benefits. They collect something like twice as much in NICs as Income Tax.

Should we have to pay twice?

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2019/12/03/boris-johnson-said-patients-should-have-to-pay-to-use-the-nhs-so/

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brian1208 16 11.6k 12 United Kingdom
4 Dec 2019 7:57PM
I think people who make appointments then don't turn up for them without letting the system know should definitely be made to pay

As to the main point, we keep being compared badly with the European and other national health services in terms of cash / capita.

If you look I believe you will find that most if not all of these not only get paid for by taxing the population but also by charging at point of use, so I guess it rather depends on how you want to pay for our services and get better service.

One thing is for sure, if the demands are to be met it will need more money and as no government of any political leaning has any money of its own it will have to come from us in some way or another
Dave_Canon Plus
13 1.6k United Kingdom
5 Dec 2019 10:17AM
The above link was from 1995 so is clearly political stirring. I am not a fan of any of the current political leaders but find quoting weird statements they made over 20 years ago is not very useful.

This country spends less on healthcare per person than most of northern Europe and North America. While there are questions about how we organise our healthcare, we probably do not spend enough. Because the main political parties are afraid to suggest any major change (vote loser), we never get the improvements we need. I would not adopt the US model but certainly countries like Germany provide excellent healthcare and we should be studying what other countries do and be prepared to change.

Dave
seahawk 12 1.3k United Kingdom
5 Dec 2019 10:36AM
Agree Dave. The NHS is being asked to do too much so does many things badly. Health Insurance is compulsory in Germany, so my German friends tell me, and I think we should look at their model. Basic and emergency care are provided through taxation but serious stuff is covered by the insurance. I know from my own experience that health care in Germany is superior (and faster) to ours. I also think some items need to be pruned from the NHS if they are not vital as they consume valuable time and resources. The management structure also needs to be rationalised and the entry requirements for nursing need to be re-examined.
A Royal Commission to examine the future of the NHS that can make recommendations might be the best way to go but inevitably some sacred cows would have to be slaughtered. At present it suits politicians to use the NHS as a political football; I was a secondary teacher for 37 years and I know the feeling.
brian1208 16 11.6k 12 United Kingdom
5 Dec 2019 11:52AM
this paper reminds us of one lost opportunity
from 2007
DaveRyder Plus
5 3.7k 1 United Kingdom
5 Dec 2019 12:34PM
My own experience, and also my wifes, with the NHS is faultless.

1st comment - I'm not in favour of privatising the NHS.

2nd statement - The NHS is a perfect example of a privatised industry that is subject to major management change every few years.

The financing should be from NI payments for the core services but I'd stop some services. My usual example is fertility treatment ( - no one dies from not having children and there is always adoption) and other similar nice to have services.

However a business/operational plan should be agreed perhaps 5 yearly with a cross party input that, if major parties signed up to, would avoid the usual party political football match with the health service.

I also agree with visitors having travel insurance or people moving here on a permanent or semi-permanent basis making an initial one off payment.

Education would also help - I've been in A&E and seen people attend who really should be waiting for a doctors appointment rather than going to hospital - the clue is in the name 'Accident and Emergency'.
altitude50 15 16.9k United Kingdom
5 Dec 2019 2:06PM
Three things about the NHS.
1) When required, we have had wonderful service from the NHS, (minor operations, minor illnesses.)

2) The mystery is.............. why do the NHS think that nobody falls ill on weekends?

3) As a suggestion, there seems to be so much interest by the public in medical matters, including hospital dramas, watching real operations, doctors and ambulance documentaries, should the NHS investigate the possibility of broadcasting a commercial NHS TV channel to make money (profit)?
There could be factual items, repeats of recent and old medical dramas, documentaries, public health notices, with mainly adverts for medicines, treatments, baby food, stairlifts, etc. in between.
I don't know the economics of it, but I think it should make a profit!?
brian1208 16 11.6k 12 United Kingdom
5 Dec 2019 4:23PM

Quote:My own experience, and also my wifes, with the NHS is faultless.


Likewise, I've been "using" the NHS since it was first initiated, TB scare when living in a home for unwanted children just after the war, various childhood ailments and accidents, they saved my life in my early 20's and got me walking again after a life-threatening motorcycle accident etc.

I find it interesting that I have yet to meet anyone who has personally had anything but the best of experiences with the NHS, whether in the NW, London suburbs or now down here in Dorset

I'm sure there are some bad experiences to back up all the angst and political claptrap but I think a lot of the problem is watching so many medical dramas on the goggle box that many expect instant service and instant cure with no effort on the users part

When I've needed urgent treatment its been there (for myself and family) and when its been more routine but important I've been more than happy to wait, sometimes for a considerable time as I know I will get the treatment I need, so I completely agree with this
Quote:Education would also help - I've been in A&E and seen people attend who really should be waiting for a doctors appointment rather than going to hospital - the clue is in the name 'Accident and Emergency'.



(It may help that I have been married to a nurse for 52+ years so know how the system works Smile )
DaveRyder Plus
5 3.7k 1 United Kingdom
5 Dec 2019 4:47PM

Quote:
It may help that I have been married to a nurse for 52+ years so know how the system works Smile



Same here, although only 22yrs. Mrs D was a psychiatric nurse when we met. Not on the ward I should add.
dcash29 14 2.4k England
5 Dec 2019 6:59PM

Quote:I think a lot of the problem is watching so many medical dramas on the goggle box that many expect instant service and instant cure with no effort on the users part
I dont think the majority of people are so thick are they? (perhaps so) Anyway once upon a time you knew your doctor and had no issues in obtaining an appointment.


Quote:
Education would also help - I've been in A&E and seen people attend who really should be waiting for a doctors appointment rather than going to hospital - the clue is in the name 'Accident and Emergency'.


And sometimes people are forced to sit there because they cant get a doctors appointment

In addition there is a lot of sitting around and patient neglect in hospitals and homes.


brian1208 16 11.6k 12 United Kingdom
5 Dec 2019 7:35PM

Quote:I dont think the majority of people are so thick are they? (perhaps so) Anyway once upon a time you knew your doctor and had no issues in obtaining an appointment.


I still know our doctor personally and have no problems getting an appointment. The practise has developed new and useful ways of meeting the extra demand resulting from significant programmes of new home developments and increasing numbers of "olds", so we have Nurse Practitioners who run clinics and refer to the doctors or hospital as necessary (they run both my heart and asthma clinics), we have phlebotomy services on site, likewise a physio suite and they can also perform minor surgery.

I should add that we live in an area which has one of the highest ratios of elderly people (including us Smile ) yet they seem to cope.

Urgent issues they treat urgently and as a priority, more routine issues are dealt with in time and "time wasters" are sometimes quite robustly informed of the fact.

Positive and creative approaches to these issues can resolve many "problems" caused by sticking to doing things "the way we always have" .
5 Dec 2019 8:55PM
I was forwarded this link earlier
NHS cuts
thewilliam2 2 1.3k
6 Dec 2019 10:31AM
There has been talk of the NHS refusing to cover "self inflicted" ailments like Type 2 Diabetes or obesity.
Philh04 Plus
14 2.1k United Kingdom
6 Dec 2019 11:07AM

Quote:There has been talk of the NHS refusing to cover "self inflicted" ailments like Type 2 Diabetes or obesity.

Type 2 diabetes is NOT self inflicted !!!!!!!!
thewilliam2 2 1.3k
6 Dec 2019 11:35AM
I go to a pre-diabetes group because my blood-sugar level is on the cusp. From everything I can gather, the danger can be reversed so it would probably be my own fault if I do catch Type 2.

In our culture, folk can't be expected to accept responsibility for their own actions!

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