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Sony RX10/4 A little bit of help please.


Chris_L 7 5.5k United Kingdom
17 Dec 2019 8:52PM
When you say straight from the camera, what do you mean, have you processed the other ones in iPhoto before uploading them to ePz?

That photo that you last uploaded is not oversharpened, the bird is not in focus because you've focussed on the twig in front. If you picked up the latest Nikon gear with a massive 600mm lens, you'd be making the same kind of mistakes. That kind of magnification means you have to be really careful with your focus. Just putting it into centre focus etc is not going to work for many things. I've explained how you could practice at home with focus tracking, but I get the feeling you've not tried.

If you load processed Jpegs into iPhoto and it is processing them further you're going to lose quality with each new generation of changes.

As I said previously you did not have to work hard to obtain quality you were happy with, now you either have to enjoy the convenience and put up with lower quality or work harder on the capturing and processing. You've ended up having to totally over sharpen a photo because it was basically out of focus.

If you don't practice at home the same thing will happen when you are out. Forget for a minute about taking photos. Take less photos with bigger gaps between shots because you are learning to get the focus bang on. That's why I urge you to practice on vases, cushions etc. I've took a lot of time to write it out as best I can for you and link to videos. Re-read it and it will start to stick, please.

If you aren't prepared to do more then you will continue to come home with images that disappoint you

Your focusing technique and your processing is letting you down. I am not having a go, you've only had the thing two minutes but you need to learn to walk before you can run?

There's very good free software for raw files like this

.
cheddar-caveman 17 1.2k England
18 Dec 2019 8:44AM
No, no Chris, certainly not thinking you're having a go, really appreciate your time and patience.
As I said earlier, there isn't a "spot" focus on the camera, the smallest focus area is quite a larger square making it very difficult to miss things like that twig (which I hadn't seem before you mentioned it).
How did you ascertain that the twig was the focus area?

I do practice all the time. I have bird feeders and that's as near to the real world as I can get at home. but again it doesn't replicate the real thing like that twig!

The Squirrel shows the sort of quality I can get with a clear field of view but I think it will always struggle with small subjects, birds in amongst twigs etc due to the focus "spot" size - I can't see any way to reduce it to a "spot" but as you say, practice!!
cheddar-caveman 17 1.2k England
18 Dec 2019 9:06AM
Um, one doesn't get much time to "edit" a post!
Wanted to add Chris that iPhoto handles RAW OK. Before uploading the dozens of pix I took yesterday I ticked the "delete after upload": only to find that the RAW hadn't uploaded but were deleted! I must look into why they didn't upload!
Chris_L 7 5.5k United Kingdom
18 Dec 2019 11:48AM
I saw your other post about the raw, I think the answers are correct, Image menu one along to the right (I don't have a Mac or that program).

Really pleased to see you are trying to take your processing seriously. I can just see that the twig is sharper on the unprocessed and see that it's where your spot would be, if you are fully pressing the shutter at that point the camera will focus at what is under focus spot and then take the picture. You *must* half press when the subject is the only thing under your focus point, so long as you do not let go of the button the focus won't change. If you have tracking on then even if the subject moves out of focus the camera will try to change.

The focus thing, instead of using the smallest spot etc try the tracking focus, like in the videos earlier in the thread. If you practice it on something that is still then you will need to move the camera to observe the tracking

See this , that's a technique you need to learn at minimum

cheddar-caveman 17 1.2k England
18 Dec 2019 3:10PM
Again thanks Chris. Read the "Focus and recompose" article, interesting but not really where I am at the moment.
My main interest is bird photography, usually pretty small ones, so my focus will invariably in the centre of the frame (and that's another annoying thing that keeps happening, the focus area jumps away from the centre even though I've "locked" it with the centre button on the back control).
My setup this morning was:
Focus area Expand Flexible Spot
Focus mode dial - C, continuous

Press shutter half way down, let everything settle down, press shutter all the way.
The bigger subjects, ducks, seem to be all right - from the camera JPEG





but the two small birds I tried to capture are no good at all and there was nothing "in the way" to prevent focus, blurred?
again from the camera JPEGs:









MentorRon 2 102 Canada
18 Dec 2019 4:52PM
For these kinds of situations, I can use manual focus on my Sony SLT-a58.
I assume your Sony camera has similar manual focus capabilities.
I know manual slows things down, but at least you get the sharpness where you want it !!!
Then the things in the image that are in sharp focus change colour (you can choose the colour).
319285_1576687499.jpg

It looks like this, in this case red was the chosen colour.
319285_1576688078.jpg

This tutorial video can be found at:
https://www.markgaler.com/sony-alpha-focus-peaking-2
cheddar-caveman 17 1.2k England
18 Dec 2019 6:47PM
Hi MentorRon. Yes the RX10 has manual focus but not possible when trying to capture these little birds flitting from one perch to another. It really is a point and shoot situation, everything changing at the same time, so you need very good AF loc k on and this camera is supposed to be as good as it gets according to the reviews I read!
philstan 4 556 United Kingdom
18 Dec 2019 11:06PM
Have you tried 'flexible spot' focusing set on small - that's the smallest focus point on the Sony a6000 series. 'Expand flexible spot' does jump around to something nearby if the spot can't find focus e.g low contrast. Flexible spot can be set large, medium or small and won't jump around.

From the rx10 manual:

Quote:Flexible Spot :Allows you to move the focusing frame to a desired point on the screen and focus on an extremely small subject in a narrow area. 
On the Flexible Spot shooting screen, you can change the size of the focusing frame by turning the control wheel. 

Expand Flexible Spot : If the product cannot focus on a single selected point, it uses focus points around the flexible spot as a secondary priority area for focusing.   

cheddar-caveman 17 1.2k England
19 Dec 2019 9:11AM
Yes, been there, done that philstan. The smallest "spot" just isn't a spot as I'm used to on my last cameras, i seems to be a box of some 500X500 pixels. The other annoying thing about these "flexible spot" focussing is that it tends to wander all over the screen !

I ALWAYS want my focus area/exposure in the centre of the screen but I don't think I can lock it there. As soon as the camera goes to sleep and then wakes up again the "spot": is no longer locked and it invariably moves to the bottom left and locks itself there. I then have to back into the menu, re select the focus area, go out of the menu, move the spot back to the centre and lock it with the centre button. By then my subject has long gone!

11645_1576746654.jpg

11645_1576746662.jpg

11645_1576746671.jpg


I'm persevering......😱😱😱
philstan 4 556 United Kingdom
19 Dec 2019 10:45AM
OK, so your pictures in your last post show the flexible spot at large, medium and small and you want the small one to stay in the centre.

You can move the flexible spot by the control wheel or by touching the screen so I wonder if you are inadvertently touching the screen.

So you could try turning the touch operations off and see if that means that the small flexible spot stays put.......

cheddar-caveman 17 1.2k England
19 Dec 2019 12:31PM
Possible philstan, I've turned touch pad OFF now so I'll see if that is what was causing the spot to move!

I am concluding that this is a "sunny day" camera, it does not perform well in poor light conditions due to the noise even at what to me is relatively low ISO settings. On here people are recommending to stay below about 500 which on the sort of days we have at the moment is useless, can't get a decent shutter speed even at f4.

Chris_L 7 5.5k United Kingdom
19 Dec 2019 6:07PM

Quote:The other annoying thing about these "flexible spot" focussing is that it tends to wander all over the screen
!

Check the different modes, I don't think that you understand the reason it gets such good reviews is it has tracking, but you're not doing the thing I keep saying about, half-pressing to say "this is my subject, keep it in focus"

Easy peasy look here


Quote:You need very good AF lock on and this camera is supposed to be as good as it gets according to the reviews I read!
Practice tracking something, it can even be something moving about on your TV.

You will not want to switch back to dumb auto focus after you understand how easy this is to use. Watch this guy He's 100 year old (young voice I know) but he's got the hang of it Wink and I KNOW you can





Chris_L 7 5.5k United Kingdom
19 Dec 2019 6:22PM
After reading my last post (above) hopefully you watched the video and you want to at least try this out properly.

This is how easy it is, but you need to practice with stuff.

1. Turn Lock-on Focus ON. In the Camera Icon Menu, page 5, - On(start w/shutter)

2. put the camera in AF-C continuous focus mode (C position of front focus switch)

3. aim the camera so the subject is in the middle of the frame, press and hold the shutter button halfway: a green rectangle indicates what the camera selected to follow.

4. the subject moves, or you move (shutter button still held halfway down) the green box follows the subject, this way and that way, when you are ready, finish the shot.
cheddar-caveman 17 1.2k England
19 Dec 2019 8:16PM
"but you're not doing the thing I keep saying about, half-pressing to say "this is my subject, keep it in focus"
Chris, I do this every shot I take, there is no other way other than manual to focus the camera. I ALWAY press the shutter half way, until the so called focus "spot" goes green and then press all the way to take the shot.
Most of my subjects to date have been just about stationary so I'm not even into trying to "track" them yet, I'm struggling getting repetitive, in focus shots of small birds sitting in bushes mainly because the "spot" is so big it covers more than the wanted subject (I think). Outside of the world of small birds in bushes I am beginning to get some decent shots.

As said in a previous, at this moment of time I just want to lock the focus and exposure in the centre, so I know it's there every time I turn on or the camera wakes up but I don't think I can do that, or I haven't found out how yet. But I'm trying!
Chris_L 7 5.5k United Kingdom
19 Dec 2019 11:08PM

Quote:there is no other way other than manual to focus the camera

There's three kinds of autofocus AF-C.AF-S and AF-A as well as Manual and there are five kinds of focus areas.

I think I've linked to 3 or 4 things that show you how to choose the best combo for what you shoot. You aren't really interested in doing that and insist on using the centre and in a way that you are used to.

You were complaining earlier about image noise. You need to get a few weeks of raw image processing under your belt before doing that, if you don't want learn how to use the more sophisticated methods of the class leading AF - or after a few days of using it you aren't an expert - then by all means continue to moan, but don't blame the camera.

The reason for learning to use the tracking is that the camera works out what the subject is, so even if it or you move slightly it comes out sharp.

The reason for not trying to learn it is: if your shots are so sharp and in focus using your existing method that there's nothing to be gained by learning new features of your new camera.


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