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The click debate - hopefully the final one!

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Mixpix 15 1.1k England
22 Jun 2005 4:25AM
Oh goody

Restrict the number of clicks. I like that idea.

-ve click could be a bit dodgy but it could be used to counter the amount of uhm. don't like to say crap that gets such a huge amount of clicks because the person has a load of mates.

Edit: what I mean is if 30 people say wow thats sharp when obviously its not then you could use the -ve click to highlight this obvious discrepency. Thought I'd clear that up.

Removal of hearts from the thumbs yes, the reason I think so is because a very well known and talented member deleted a picture once and said he had because his picture was posted next to another shot which was given an EC and everybody was looking at that and his wasn't getting any views so you lose the magnet effect as I call it.

I agree with K, everything I post I post for critique so maybe an opt out otherwise your fair game for people comments.

Mick

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funkeldink 16 1.6k 1 Australia
22 Jun 2005 4:28AM
Why change a winning formula...it's a great site. Everybody uses it differently and that should be the case. Part of the beauty of this site is the social aspect and photographers of all standards can get enjoyment out of it. I think it's obvious to all of us who gets social clicks and who gets clicks for their images. At the end of the day we all just enjoy taking photographs.

If any changes //// an addition...a separate HC gallery or a little box (like the recent EC box) in the gallery to highlight the image as an HC....these shots tend to be underclicked and underviewed and deserve more prominence. If the editor of a magazine likes your photo, it's a bigger honour than 35 of your mates clicking it....Just my opinion.
debster 15 693 3 England
22 Jun 2005 4:33AM
Hi Pete, as I mentioned once before, you're never going to please ALL of the people ALL of the time.....no matter what you finally decide, there's going to be some who still disagree!

My thoughts (briefly) - the best idea I've heard is the comment above about the hearts ALWAYS remaining invisible, except to the person who posted. At the end of the day, I'd be more than happy to do things this way and then I'd know each and every click really counted (and wasn't reciprocal etc).

Negative comments and removal of clicks - again, if this was done in a "positive" way (if that makes sense)

My one and only other comment refers to a previous question and that's if we could possibly have a category specifically for "HELP". I won't go into this now Pete as you've hopefully received my email/seen my locked thread.

At the end of the day, I love this site and will happily go with the flow. I use the site as I like and accept from the outset that others use it differently - I get a lot from using EPZ - long may it continue!

Debbie
digicammad 16 22.0k 39 United Kingdom
22 Jun 2005 4:34AM
I know it would be more coding, but as you are putting the effort in ......

for the 5 clicks a day limit how about if you coded it such that people were able to shortlist photos as they were viewing and then at some later time go back and view the shortlist for the purpose of awarding the 5 RC clicks. That would make it very managable from a user perspective. You would need an option to clear the shortlist down, if you wanted to get really fancy you could even allow the shortlist to span multiple days (although segmented to make it clear which were from which day etc).

Ian
spaceman 15 5.3k 3 Wales
22 Jun 2005 4:36AM
I'm happy with the way it is, it's just that some people take it too seriously. I wouldn't object to the changes though - except the minus clicks thing which could prove calamitous.
simont 15 2.3k 4 United Kingdom
22 Jun 2005 4:38AM

Quote:
Why change a winning formula...it's a great site. Everybody uses it differently and that should be the case. Part of the beauty of this site is the social aspect and photographers of all standards can get enjoyment out of it. I think it's obvious to all of us who gets social clicks and who gets clicks for their images. At the end of the day we all just enjoy taking photographs.

If any changes //// an addition...a separate HC gallery or a little box (like the recent EC box) in the gallery to highlight the image as an HC....these shots tend to be underclicked and underviewed and deserve more prominence. If the editor of a magazine likes your photo, it's a bigger honour than 35 of your mates clicking it....Just my opinion.




Just about sums my views up perfectly.
Simon
ajhollingbery 16 106 England
22 Jun 2005 4:38AM
Briefly:

Restricted to 5 clicks for RC - NO - It is unfair on those who upload late in the day when people have already used their 5 clicks.

-ve clicks - NO - will cause to much discouragement to beginners Constructive criticism of a picture is a +ve action not a -ve one.

Removal of hearts from the thumbnails - YES - for reasons already stated by others.

Tick for critique? - I think you should tick if you DON'T want critique.

Someone else has alreadt suggested it, but why not a grading system?

Thanks for all your hard work Pete.

Andy
andytvcams 17 10.4k 1 United Kingdom
22 Jun 2005 4:38AM
Why not just do away with the RC?,

Five RC per day will mean even less comments/clicks on photos.
randomrubble 15 3.0k 12 United Kingdom
22 Jun 2005 4:40AM
Generally sound positive, a few thoughts.

Hiding the hearts 'til you open the photo's seems like a good idea, but will make very little difference to the reciprocal click thing. The best way to make a dent in that might be to remove the favourite photographers from e2, but that's probably a non-starter.

Random Gallery page, probably a good idea, but should be restricted to images from the last 7 days?

I like the critique flag idea, a but think for it to work properly you'd have to give up clicks on those images, and there would need to be a big disclaimer about not taking offence at candid comments.

Dedicated and limited RC voting will likely just reduce the number of RC's but not change the people getting RCs.

-ve scoring, probably a disaster if it's not anonymous, and possibly worse if it is!
Kris_Dutson 17 8.2k 1 England
22 Jun 2005 4:42AM
Hide the hearts/clicks - yes

16 oldies gallery - yes

-ve voting - no

Tick for critique - yes

5 RC votes - not sure. What if you miss a day or two on the site and go back to look over a few days images - you've only got that days 5 RC votes for several days worth of uploads.

Kris.
AngelaR 15 155 United Kingdom
22 Jun 2005 4:42AM
Look like some good ideas here Pete. However, I'm concerned that some of us are not able to trawl through the pics throughout the day/night and might miss some good ones to give our 5 RCs too - some sort of reservation of pics to look at later might be a good idea? Agree with Kris above about catching up too.

Minus ratings might cause some nasty problems.

Not quite sure about the gallery idea.
UserRemoved 14 481
22 Jun 2005 4:45AM
As the type of work I do is of minority interest anyway, I doubt if these changes would affect me much.

However, I would prefer if when people "clicked" on a shot, they said why they liked it, rather than just "great shot" etc.

I don't really care about RCs so I have no opinion on that.

Allowing people to take "clicks" away from someone would lead to ill-feeling and ruin the site.

As another suggestion - why not also include a box to tick if you only want comments and no clicks at all. I'd like that, as I value the constructive feedback from others rather than a simple "pat on the back" - which is meaningless to me.

I also think the site should open with a randomly selected photo from each category, so that visitors could get an overview of all the different areas.

iain. Smile
shaun 16 368 England
22 Jun 2005 4:45AM
Pete,

Good to see you're addressing some of the issues that have 'plagued' the site recently.

I like the no hearts on thumbnails idea, as much as we may try to not be drawn in by them, I find it inevitable that a well clicked picture will at least provoke me to see what "all the fuss" is about!

Not sure the RC click would solve the 'click clique' problems but it would perhaps focus the clicker on why they are doing it more. I'd say 5 is a rather generous daily allowance. I'd also say that if RC clicks are not to fall into the same reciprocating trap that clicks have they should be completely anonymous to the clicker and the receiver.

Negative clicks - would be too divisive.

I'd agree with some other views that posting a photo is an invitation to receive critique and I believe should be the basic philosophy of the gallery. I'd therefore sooner see a "No Critique" option for those who just want to share their image with everyone without receiving any critique. For those pictures there should be no option to add a comment of any kind (hey, might save you some server space too, far less "Great shot - click" posts!).

Random page sounds good. Presumably we'd be able to refresh it to get a new selection?

Shaun
keith selmes 16 7.4k 1 United Kingdom
22 Jun 2005 4:50AM
-ve click not a good idea. people will be reluctant to use it for the right reasons, it will be used for the wrong reasons, and even when used sensibly, will lead to revenge attacks.

tick for critique could be useful. i'm more inclined to do it if i know people want it. and it would avoid upsetting people who didn't want it. I do wonder if inexperienced photographers would realise the value of critique and tick the box.
raziel_uk 15 4.9k
22 Jun 2005 4:52AM

Quote:Issues
Some photos get huge numbers of clicks from friends/click buddies etc
Some RC photos do not deserve the status
Some photos are being missed
Some subjects are underrated



Cobblers! None of these will ever be truly solved.

Friends clicking/click buddies
You're never going to stop that.

Some RC photos do not deserve the status
But it's subjective. I've seen shots on here that I think are stunning but only got a few clicks. Others I've hated but have got RCs. How can you give a universally approved RC to any photo?

Some photos are being missed
Photos will always be missed it's the nature of the beast. Unless Pete or Will do a section where there's the opportunity of seeing photos that haven't been commented/clicked on then you can't solve it.

Some subjects are underrated
Again purely subjecive.

You find me a single photo of any subject that is liked by everyone on epz?

I recently asked the question "Which shot has the most clicks?" and one example was a photo of a dog with around 270 clicks. Yes, nice photo I thought, when I looked at it, but it's just a dog sitting looking at the camera. The lighting and technique were good, but hardly "wow" in my eyes.

Ashley

Ashley