Upgrading from Canon 40D to 77D or 80D

paulmerhaba Avatar
30 Oct 2019 3:28PM
Hope this is not too stupid a question.
I have canon 40D
Thinking of upgrading to 77 or 80D.
I know i would get more bells and whistles but would I get better picture quality and how noticeable would it be?
Thanks in advance for your time.
youmightlikethis Avatar
30 Oct 2019 4:41PM
you would get better iq the 80d is 24 mp the 40d is ten have you considered getting a couple of canon lenses to use with 40d
paulmerhaba Avatar
30 Oct 2019 4:53PM
Thanks for reply.
Yep have had it for a good number of years and got an assortment of lenses from canon, tamron and sigma. Been a bit of a stop starter with photography and have got to stage that I want to learn how to do it properly(if that makes any sense). I am wondering if my learning would be better achieved on a newer camera with hopefully better iq.
I get confused as i have read that amount of mp's does not affect image quality except for in printing and cropping.
But surely more mp's, a newer processor and sensor must affect iq?????
banehawi Avatar
banehawi Plus
19 3.0k 4383 Canada
30 Oct 2019 5:04PM
Consider the much better 90D
paulmerhaba Avatar
30 Oct 2019 5:13PM
Hiya banehawl.
Been enjoying the pictures you have been posting.
It is a bit out of my price range at the mo.
What are your thoughts on image quality on older cameras against newer ones?
Whilst learning, should i stick with what I have got?
dark_lord Avatar
dark_lord Plus
19 3.0k 836 England
31 Oct 2019 11:03AM
You'll see th biggest improvement in noise at higher ISOs whichever new model you go for, and some dynamic range improvement.
Depending on what you take that may or may not be so impoprtant.
The newer models may have roughly double the pixel count, which is only useful if you crop heavily (avoiding that is down to improving technique) or print large. I've no problems with my older images taken at 12 Mp.
Go for the one that has the features you need, not what sounds fancy.
That said, there may be some featires that you can 'grow into' as you progress.

Those are the techncal points,.
Buying the latest camera will not improve your results, on the whole. That's down to perfecting your approach and technique, analysing your images and working out how you could go about the capture process to create a more pleasing final image.
That last bit is probably not what you wanted to hear but is more fundamental.
paulmerhaba Avatar
31 Oct 2019 11:39AM
Hi Dark-lord.
Thank you so much for that reply. It is sort of what i was thinking, but you right about not wanting to hear it. I am trying to improve my technique and am reading and watching photography content as much as I can, plus taking taking loads of photos. I get frustrated when the results are bad and then blame the camera. Yep a newer one would help in many ways, but isn't the answer for this reason. I am disappointed cos I am a bit of a gadget man.Wink
I feel that I am improving, to some extent anyway, gave myself the task of shooting in the woods without tripod getting acceptable sharpness. Means i had to think about technique and balancing the triangle. Pleased with results.
Thank you for your time.
Chris_L Avatar
Chris_L 9 5.5k United Kingdom
31 Oct 2019 4:05PM
Paul, I'm only able to go by the two shots that you have uploaded but your exposure settings are doing nothing to help you get the best IQ out of your existing gear. There's no need to take this photo at f11, which I'm glad to see from the comments is something you are starting to address.

Then this one has an exposure of a second which means the slightest movement of camera or animal will create blur and kill sharpness.

With more megapixels the downsides would simply become more apparent.

You have not outgrown your existing gear, you're nowhere near knowing how to use it to its full.

If you are dying to spend some money get a decent lens like this that will give you a great range of apertures to learn with. You want IQ and sharpness, start with that
paulmerhaba Avatar
31 Oct 2019 5:25PM
HI Chris L
Thanks your feedback it is much appreciated.
I think i was very lucky with the picture of Leo or the exif data? is wrong. I would be interested if you could tell me your though process regarding using f11 on the other picture. This is something i struggle with badly to understand. I am thinking that wide aperture for close up and background blur and smaller ones for more sharpness landscapes etc. Is this way of thinking limiting me?
I am at an early learning stage even though I have been taking photos for many years with much frustration. This is perhaps illustrated by the fact that I am working on using ISO(instead of leaving it on 100), relationship between focal length and shutter speed, back button focusing and moving instead of zooming.
Funnily enough saw a couple of videos on nifty fifty saying how good it was. As usual, for me, this translated into getting an all singing dancing zoom instead. lol. Didn't pull the trigger so I will get the 50, instead of getting a new camera.
I am serious about improving my skills and if you or any of the other people who have been kind enough to respond to my query would be willing to take me under their wing I would be most grateful. Beware I have a strange sense of humour.
Thanks again
Chris_L Avatar
Chris_L 9 5.5k United Kingdom
31 Oct 2019 8:27PM

This is quite handy as a guide (but it really is just a guide) focal length, image stabilization and sensor ISO performance mean it can only ever be a guide, but it's a useful one.

I used to over think it. I'd dial in f11 or even f22 thinking I'd get max sharpness. I was wrong because 1) I hadn't learnt about diffraction and 2) sometimes you can shoot at a wide aperture and still get very good sharpness depending how spread out the subjects are and how accurately you focus.

This was taken at f.1.8, it's a tram length that I want in focus, not a lake with a mountain in the background and there's no need for me to stop down the lens. The background slowly blurs away which I like and I get a fast enough shutter speed to freeze motion.

This next one needed both buses in focus to work, taken at f4.5 Five years ago I'd have probably shot both with a 24-105 zoom at f8 and they wouldn't have looked anywhere near as nice as they do shot on a nice sharp prime. Best thing I did was getting rid of zooms and learning to shoot with primes and zoom with feet.

paulmerhaba Avatar
31 Oct 2019 10:16PM
Hi Chris,
Thanks for this it is so helpful. Brilliant photos by the way, where is it?
I would never have thought of taking those photos at anything other than F8 or above. I would have assumed it would not be sharp. Got some thinking and practicing to do. Daft question time again, where would you focus for the two photos and would you use manual or auto? Sorry asking because i have read that focusing a third of the way into a scene is good, but I am not sure if it is applicable in this sort of situation.

Again I have never considers primes, i am making many cups of tea, cooking meals and hoovering at the mo hoping to persuade the boss to let me have nifty fifty,as a start, obviously.

Thanks again and if you have had enough of me please ignore this.
banehawi Avatar
banehawi Plus
19 3.0k 4383 Canada
1 Nov 2019 1:09PM
Very helpful comments abpove. Yes, advancements in older vs newer are largely in the area of low noise performance/ high ISP performance.

There are some other finer tweaks like actual image processing, 14 bit raw files, colour, etc, but mainly noise, and processing speed.

I would choose the 80D over the 77 D but its down to budgets as always. The higher pixel count of these sensors might show the limitations of lesser quality lenses you may/may not have as they are more demanding with those nice extra pixels.
Chris_L Avatar
Chris_L 9 5.5k United Kingdom
1 Nov 2019 1:29PM
That was at Beamish Open Air Museum.

If you get that nifty fifty go out with just that lens and your camera and nothing else, you won't be tempted to stick a zoom on.

Put camera in Av (aperture value) mode and try shooting between f.1.8 and f.8.0 - shoot anything, trees, postboxes, the landscape, buildings, street shots, vehicles etc.

Use single AF mode (not continuous focus) whenever you half-press to focus look at your shutter speed as the camera takes a light meter reading and adjusts the shutter speed for you. (You've already set aperture). If you find your shutter duration dipping below 1/125 s consider increasing ISO from 100 to 200, that should mean your shutter duration will shorten to 1/250s.

Some people can hand hold such a lens and camera and open the shutter for 1/60s without evident blur from camera shake on their final image - but, as with a tripod, the subjects, if they move - even leaves on trees in the breeze - will blur slightly.

Most photographers that I know shoot in Aperture Priority mode. The difference in the way a subject looks at f.1.8 versus how it appears shot at f.5.6 can be significant. However a lot of stuff shot at 1/400 of a second will look the same when shot at 1/1000 of a second. So controlling aperture often takes priority. Let the camera worry about setting the shutter duration but always check it's not too long.

Unless I'm shooting something like sports I use Aperture Priority / Av mode most of the time.
paulmerhaba Avatar
1 Nov 2019 3:14PM
HI Willie and Chris,
Thanks to the advice from everyone am going to hold on getting a new camera until I improve my skills and technique. I was worried the age of the camera would mean worse IQ i was wrong it was me doing that.
I have ordered the nifty fifty, should be here tomorrow.
I found myself trying in the past shooting in manual mode but reverting to AV mode. Will feel better about using AV more from now on.
Looking forward to tying the fifty out and seeing the results of shooting at a more open aperture. Think it is going to be an eye opener for me.
Thanks again for the time you are taking to advise me.
Umberto_V Avatar
1 Nov 2019 8:22PM
I upgraded from a Canon 30D to a 60D a few years ago. The 30D was second hand and i was never happy with the image quality from it but i was checking the sensor for dust one time and found the sensor was covered in tiny scratches, probably caused by the previous owner's over enthusiastic attempt at cleaning it. The 60D, which was also second hand, was better image quality-wise. Sharper, better contrast and overall more pleasing picture quality. Sadly my photos didin't really improve Wink.

I would stick with the 40D for now. It's a capable camera and you are familiar with it. Technique is more important than fancy features.


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