Get 5% off Loupedeck Live with code: Ephotozine5

Wedding cancellation


dontforgetme 16 1.7k 7 United Kingdom
16 Jul 2009 10:04AM
Hi,
Well its not really a cancellation, but more of a dispute with the clients about the level of service I am able to provide, and I am wondering what I can expect if they decided to sue me?

Basically, my personal situation has changed and I am unable to complete the free pre shoot I offer due to the lack of my studio, (and they wanted a studio shoot). I offered a lifestyle shoot at their home but they are not happy, so I have suggested they feel free to look for another tog if its not satisfactory.
I am covered for professional indemnity and public liability, and assume I migth hacve to use this, but was wondering what sort of sums they could claim if such a case came about.
I was hoping they would be reasonable and allow me to work something else out, but they have become rather arsy, which really isnt going to help on the day is it?

They are only paying £150 for the entire package, as they booked about 2 years ago! So I am not too worried about letting these particular customers go if they continue to by a pain, but just wondered what is could cost?

Any advice gratefull appreciated.
Jules
User_Removed 13 2.2k 3 United Kingdom
16 Jul 2009 10:10AM
Not an answer to the question but what about simply hiring a studio for the day to avoid the grief ? It may cost you financially but you'll gain on the customer relations front

?
martinproe 15 293 5 England
16 Jul 2009 10:10AM
Hi Jules,
If you were only charging £150 for the entire package I don't think they'll be away for long. They won't get anything comparable for anywhere near that price and they're bound to realise that very soon.
I would think the worrst they could do is ask you to pay for the replacement of the entire package by another pro, but I would imagine most courts would find their behaviour ( when you offered a suitable alternative) unreasonable.
Is there no studio nearby which you could hire for a couple of hours.
Incidentally, having checked out your website, you seem way underpriced for the quality of your work even at your current prices.
Martin.
chasney 17 139 United Kingdom
16 Jul 2009 10:18AM
As you have an implied contract with them, hire a studio and get it out of the way - with added goodwill.

Also, if the lack of studio situation is going to continue (assuming no further hires), then take the pre-shoot images and service off your website otherwise they (and other prospective clients) will see something that you can't actually offer them..

Hope they are paying extra for prints, £150 is underselling yourself mate!
mark_delta 13 1.3k
16 Jul 2009 10:19AM
You can not make a claim for what you have not had and not paid for, this is the basis of the Law of Torts.
it is covered by the "offer to treat" Law.
you should write and tell them that due to "frustration of the contract" you will be withdrawing from the contract but you will offer a revised new contract based upon what you can provide.
PeteWilliamson 15 545 2 Isle of Man
16 Jul 2009 10:48AM

Quote:You can not make a claim for what you have not had and not paid for, this is the basis of the Law of Torts.
it is covered by the "offer to treat" Law.
you should write and tell them that due to "frustration of the contract" you will be withdrawing from the contract but you will offer a revised new contract based upon what you can provide.



good info.. cheers.
roxpix 17 2.2k 11 Scotland
16 Jul 2009 10:58AM
This is one of these things that no amount of money spent will fully resolve

Sure the options of home shoot, outdoor shoot, hire studio etc could provide an alternate but as you indicated itíll be the wedding day itself thatís now the real issue

In the absence of time travel this issue is going to be on your mind and the couples while youíre shooting the wedding & it may well still be there when they review the pics and could adversely cloud their judgment on the quality and your performance, to unreasonable expectations

As you know, unlike many of the other service providers on the wedding day, the emotional/mental relationship between you and the couple is paramount in getting the cooperation & shots you need

Having no knowledge of you or the coupleís personalities I can only suggest a totally frank clear the air on both sides, stating both your positions, options and willingness (or otherwise) to continue working together, while considering what is actually reasonable

Had it been a corporate/commercial shoot it would be easier to proceed through this (for both parties) but as a wedding day it may be irretrievable
Krakman 14 3.6k Scotland
16 Jul 2009 10:59AM

Quote:You can not make a claim for what you have not had and not paid for, this is the basis of the Law of Torts.
it is covered by the "offer to treat" Law.
you should write and tell them that due to "frustration of the contract" you will be withdrawing from the contract but you will offer a revised new contract based upon what you can provide.
good info.. cheers



But it's absolutely and utter bollox... Mark, you just made that up didn't you? Wink
dontforgetme 16 1.7k 7 United Kingdom
16 Jul 2009 11:14AM
Thanks for all the advice.

At £150 for a full day of work, mnot to mention the post production effort, I am loath to bend over backwards for people who are clearluy being selfish and greedy, just because, as the customer they feel they can.

I have already done a family shoot for them a while agio which netted some great couple shots of them and I suggested they could have one of those, but they dont want that as they feel they are entitled to the free pre-shoot and print (£40 to me). This just smacks of ignorance, and I'm keen to explore a get out.

As said here, its all about the relationship between the tog and the B&G on the day, and this really isnt going to help is it?
Krakman 14 3.6k Scotland
16 Jul 2009 11:20AM
If you're not careful you'll at least end up paying for whoever they coose to replace you, which could easily be £1500 or so. I would still offer to go ahead and shoot on the day (as well as offering to do the portrait shoot on location or whatever). Just treat it as a job. You don't have to like them. It's more their problem, not wanting someone they've offended on the day around them. If they decide they want to get someone else, that's perfect, but not because you've failed to do what you agreed.
dontforgetme 16 1.7k 7 United Kingdom
16 Jul 2009 11:26AM
If they choose to get someone else, given that I offered an alternative shoot, does that still mean I need to pay for it?
JamesBurns 12 1.3k 7
16 Jul 2009 11:41AM
What does your contract say? How long to the wedding?

You could offer them a refund to the value of the free shoot. Wink

Or you could just return whatever money they've paid and tell them to c*ck off... It'd cost them the best part of £150 to bring a small claims action, so I doubt that they'd bother. If they're going to be this much bother over a free shoot, then they're clearly going to be a chuffing nightmare on (and after) the wedding.

Get rid... Especially if you have the provision in your contract to do it easily...
Krakman 14 3.6k Scotland
16 Jul 2009 11:43AM
If you're still offering to do the wedding itself, but they decide to go with someone else, then you won't be liable for their costs of getting someone else to do the wedding. In fact, you could still claim your fee 'cos it would be them that broke the agreement. If you walked away from the wedding rather than them changing photographer voluntarily, then you would be liable at least for the costs of them getting the replacement (and possibly for more).

So far as the pre-wedding shoot is concerned, they can only walk away from the agreement (and claim damages) if your change is a "fundamental breach" of the agreement. I would say that if you've offered a reasonable alternative, then that's probably not a fundamental breach, just a breach. Which means they can claim damages for their loss with regard to the pre-wedding shoot, but can't walk away from the contract claiming you've failed to do the lot. In practise, what are their losses with regard to the pre-wedding shoot? You can argue you offered a reasonable alternative and they didn't really have any loss, they might argue it was important to them it should be in the studio and claim the cost of some other photographer doing the pre-wedding shoot.

Personally, I would avoid argument by hiring a studio for an hour somewhere and get it done quickly, even if you don't make any profit on the wedding as a result. Nobody says you have to take utterly brilliant pictures. It would be interesting to know what kind of pictures they expect on their wedding day for £150 and a pissed off photographer. Wink
mark_delta 13 1.3k
16 Jul 2009 11:50AM
The Law is you can not claim for what you have not had and not paid for.
And a ruddy good job to.
#lets say i called "crackman plumbers" and they quote me to fit a boiler £500 and I book them next Wednesday, they ring on saturday and cancel because the Boiler maker has gone bust or some other daft reason , I can not sue them for the cost of getting a boiler fitted free by another firm, goodness me, all I would have to do is get a mate to cancel them on a sneaky mobile phone, claim they never turned up, sue them and get everything in life free of charge, from my shopping to my Wedding pictures.
if you do not want to do the work, return the deposit if any and inform them the contract is terminated.
If they think they can sue !!! Let them get on with it, that's what you paid your insurance for.
Hiring a studio ? why not throw in a round of golf and a free hotel whilst you are at it, your running a business, not a charity....
Krakman 14 3.6k Scotland
16 Jul 2009 11:58AM

Quote:The Law is you can not claim for what you have not had and paid for.


Mark, believe me that that is , utterly, and completely wrong. There is a contract here. If you fail to deliver, you are liable to damages.


Quote:#lets say i called "crackman plumbers" and they quote me to fit a boiler £500 and I book them next Wednesday, they ring on saturday and cancel, I can not sue them for the cost of getting a boiler fitted free by another firm


In that case, you can get another firm to fit it, say the first firm's quote was very low, and the other firm quoted £2000. You can get the second firm to fit the boiler and reclaim the £1500 difference from the first firm. They can also claim any other expenses/losses they incurred as a result.

In this case the OP offered to do it almost for free (£150). Market rate may easily be £1500, especially with pre-wedding shoot. They might just claim say, £1350, plus any other expenses they might argue they incurred - and possibly extra because they argue that they wanted the OP's unique style and they have suffered loss because the guy who did it for £1500 wasn't really what they wanted...

Sign In

You must be a member to leave a comment.

ePHOTOzine, the web's friendliest photography community.

Join For Free

Upload photos, chat with photographers, win prizes and much more.