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What on earth is going on?
The EU that we joined back in 1975 was very different from the EU that we'll be leaving.
Too many ordinary people felt let down by our system and our incompetent government has very skilfully blamed its failings on the EU.
Immigrants have pushed down wages for basic-grade work so that the NMW has become the normal wage. The number of new housing built each year is far less than is needed to accomodate the net immigration so that property prices and rents have been pushed beyond the reach of ordinary people. I'd feel let down if I weren't mid 60s, just like so many blue-collar Americans feel badly let down.
I'd suggest that Trump and Brexit were protest votes by a population that didn't want to be conned and ignored any more!
Too many ordinary people felt let down by our system and our incompetent government has very skilfully blamed its failings on the EU.
Immigrants have pushed down wages for basic-grade work so that the NMW has become the normal wage. The number of new housing built each year is far less than is needed to accomodate the net immigration so that property prices and rents have been pushed beyond the reach of ordinary people. I'd feel let down if I weren't mid 60s, just like so many blue-collar Americans feel badly let down.
I'd suggest that Trump and Brexit were protest votes by a population that didn't want to be conned and ignored any more!
Quote:short memory CB?
1975: UK embraces Europe in referendum
No, that referendum was on whether or not to stay in, held 2½ years after Heath took us in.
And that was the EEC/Common Market, not the EU.
Quote:I'd suggest that Trump and Brexit were protest votes by a population that didn't want to be conned and ignored any more!
I think they will be disappointed: Trumpers and Brexiters will continue to be conned and ignored as before - call me a cynic but I think I will be proved right - sadly.
Quote: The EU that we joined back in 1975
Er no - we joined the EEC/Common Market in 1973. Without being given a vote. Exercise of the Royal Prerogative took us in. The 1975 referendum was merely to confirm we wanted to stay in. The result was hardly surprising given we'd only been EEC members for 2 years.
Now some are moaning about use of the same Royal Prerogative to trigger Article 50 to take us out.
We were not given any sort of vote on expansion of the EU - and it's implications or anything else.
I fail to see the need for a planned negotiation with a clear outcome expected.
The EU has clearly signaled intent, it's not going to amicable, and all remaining states would need to agree before sign off of an agreement - unlikely.
Hence just leave, WTO trade, boarder and passport back in place and then negotiate with EU along with other countries after the fact.
At this point it would be very clear that an EU agreement on trade, without open boarders, would be beneficial to both sides.
Or if they want to play hardball no winners, but only for a short period.
Oh and very important - do it before German elections for maximum effect.
The EU has clearly signaled intent, it's not going to amicable, and all remaining states would need to agree before sign off of an agreement - unlikely.
Hence just leave, WTO trade, boarder and passport back in place and then negotiate with EU along with other countries after the fact.
At this point it would be very clear that an EU agreement on trade, without open boarders, would be beneficial to both sides.
Or if they want to play hardball no winners, but only for a short period.
Oh and very important - do it before German elections for maximum effect.
Remember that Angela Merkel was brought up in a country that, until 1989, used to shoot people who attempted to leave and some 300 perished at the hands of the East German border guards.
I can't imagine that the rulers of the EU want to set a precedent that would encourage others to leave because several countries are teetering on the edge. Rather, the UK will be given the hard time that will set an example to the 26 others who might otherwise dare to dissent.
I can't imagine that the rulers of the EU want to set a precedent that would encourage others to leave because several countries are teetering on the edge. Rather, the UK will be given the hard time that will set an example to the 26 others who might otherwise dare to dissent.
That's a little off target, It was the Russians who took care of that...........
Quote:That's a little off target, It was the Russians who took care of that...........
I understood it was the East Germans who actually did the work.
Quote:The EU looks very likely to implode over the next few years.
All the UK is doing is getting into the lifeboats before the ship hits the iceberg.
......while the rest are re-arranging the deck-chairs
Quote:The EU looks very likely to implode over the next few years.
A lot of people repeat that, but hardly any can explain why
Quote:All the UK is doing is getting into the lifeboats before the ship hits the iceberg
Brexit isn't like getting in a lifeboat. It's more like a ship getting separated from a convoy. (Remember PQ17 ?)
And, actually, if the Titanic just hadn't gone so fast, it wouldn't have hit anything.
Don't be in too much hurry to get in a lifeboat, it's hazardous and uncomfortable, and you quite likely die of exposure.
What did happen to the crew of the Marie Celeste ?
