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What on earth is going on?


Carabosse 17 41.5k 270 England
23 Nov 2016 11:28PM
Well let's see how well the EU does when we have President Le Pen in charge of France with the AfD in Germany and 5-Star in Italy all doing very well. Not to mention Austria possibly about to elect a neo-Nazi president.... imminently.

There will eventually be a scramble for the lifeboats..... but there won't be enough of them! Wink

The Eurozone seems likely to come apart at the seams, first. One that happens, the rest of the edifice will surely crumble. Could take a few years, of course, but by then the UK will be charting its own course unshackled from the dismal slow-growing failing project but hopefully tied in, by means of some decent trade deals, with the 170 or so countries which are not in the EU.
gcarth Plus
16 3.9k 1 United Kingdom
24 Nov 2016 12:34PM

Quote:The Eurozone seems likely to come apart at the seams, first. One that happens, the rest of the edifice will surely crumble. Could take a few years, of course, but by then the UK will be charting its own course unshackled from the dismal slow-growing failing project but hopefully tied in, by means of some decent trade deals, with the 170 or so countries which are not in the EU.
I think you're probably right. That's why Brexit may not be such a terrible result after all. However, I still think it was highly irresponsible to leave the EU without any planning from either the Brexiters or Cameron's Remainers.
gcarth Plus
16 3.9k 1 United Kingdom
24 Nov 2016 12:37PM
What worries me is the rise in power of the far right parties and the general nastiness that comes with it.
ChrisV Plus
14 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
24 Nov 2016 1:31PM
The rise of right wing nationalist parties coupled with the disintegration of the EU should give people nightmares.
gcarth Plus
16 3.9k 1 United Kingdom
24 Nov 2016 1:42PM

Quote:The rise of right wing nationalist parties coupled with the disintegration of the EU should give people nightmares.
Yes. Too many people think they are fighting the establishment but can't see that they are quite likely to end up with an even more right wing establishment that makes them even worse off than before.
I still say the lies and racist propaganda from much of the media is very much responsible for this ugly distortion. Sad
brian1208 17 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
24 Nov 2016 1:58PM

Quote:However, I still think it was highly irresponsible to leave the EU without any planning from either the Brexiters or Cameron's Remainers


or it appears of any of the major business / corporations

Funny that, in my days in Shell there were regular scenario planning events were all aspects of the future were reviewed and plans drawn up to manage the business through the best and worse cases, including collapse of Governments, economic crises etc

I wonder if the fact that appears not to have happened is yet another indication of the way in which this country and its structures became complacent since joining the EU (and indeed lazy) and passed responsibility for any long term thinking over to the EU bureaucracy?

Witness the fact that we appear to have no one in the UK capable of negotiating international trade deals anymore - because we gave that responsibility to the EU
lobsterboy Plus
17 14.9k 13 United Kingdom
24 Nov 2016 9:50PM

Quote:Witness the fact that we appear to have no one in the UK capable of negotiating international trade deals anymore - because we gave that responsibility to the EU


Sorry Brian I don't follow your logic here, why would we employ people who had nothing to do? or train people to do a job we didn't need doing
ChrisV Plus
14 2.3k 26 United Kingdom
25 Nov 2016 2:01PM

Quote:

Funny that, in my days in Shell there were regular scenario planning events were all aspects of the future were reviewed and plans drawn up to manage the business through the best and worse cases, including collapse of Governments, economic crises etc

I wonder if the fact that appears not to have happened is yet another indication of the way in which this country and its structures became complacent since joining the EU (and indeed lazy) and passed responsibility for any long term thinking over to the EU bureaucracy?



I'm not sure that is as much to do with the EU as it is the complete hegemony of globalist market economics over the last 30 odd years. The 'elite' we have been discussing have become used to the idea that there are not going to be major changes via piffling things like democratic will.

It couldn't last forever and the backlash against the EU is a symptom, rather than the cause of, the status quo that's recently raised such disaffection. It's very reactionary stuff which seems a more fecund environment for the right than a progressive left [which arguably is needed to restore some balance]. I find it a deeply troubling prospect. I've heard the death of 'political correctness' being cheerfully heralded - I don't think political correctness was ever likely to inspire acts of genocide.
thewilliam 12 6.1k
25 Nov 2016 7:21PM
Here in the UK, our public services tend to get caught out by such things as the arrival of winter or the deposition of leaves in Autumn.

Many of our leaders seem to have no concept of contingency planning, or indeed proper planning of any sort.
Carabosse 17 41.5k 270 England
26 Nov 2016 2:22AM
My understanding is that Cameron explicitly forbade the civil service to make any contingency plans for a Leave result. (Exactly the same, in fact, as for the possibility of a Yes result in the Scottish referendum).

The head of the service was so concerned about this, that he privately arranged an "awayday" with departmental permanent secretaries for an informal discussion of the possibility. Obviously this fell far short of actual planning.
brian1208 17 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
26 Nov 2016 9:07AM

Quote:
Quote:Witness the fact that we appear to have no one in the UK capable of negotiating international trade deals anymore - because we gave that responsibility to the EU


Sorry Brian I don't follow your logic here, why would we employ people who had nothing to do? or train people to do a job we didn't need doing



its called maintaining competence against potential future need, any organisation that outsources not only its services but also its skills is risking disaster in the future, have a look at the state of a nuclear industry at present for a good example, we now have no choice but got to other countries to design and build our nuclear powers stations
Carabosse 17 41.5k 270 England
26 Nov 2016 6:15PM
I believe New Zealand has offered to lend us some of their expert trade negotiators.

As NZ is a small country, I'm guessing these individuals have considerable expertise to be able to negotiate successfully with big countries and power blocs.

I think we would do well to consider the offer.

brian1208 17 11.8k 12 United Kingdom
26 Nov 2016 6:46PM
Agree but still think its a sign of incompetence that we didn't keep at least some of the civil service or business negotiators capable of carrying this out
Carabosse 17 41.5k 270 England
26 Nov 2016 6:52PM

Quote:Agree but still think its a sign of incompetence that we didn't keep at least some of the civil service or business negotiators capable of carrying this out


They probably all retired or died in the 43 years between our entry into the EEC and the referendum result this year! Wink
strawman 17 22.2k 16 United Kingdom
26 Nov 2016 10:31PM
I know of some companies that have contingency plans based on Brexit and also the UK failing to negotiate continued access to the single market. The problem is it is not in their interest to broadcast those plans. Think about it if the best option for your business is to close/relocate activities out of the UK why advertise it till you have to? You have seen how people have labelled anything not positive about Brexit as "project fear" and all the stupid and rather one sided press coverage. Why bring that on yourself till you have to? That is why Brexit is a death by 1,000 cuts.

CB your analogy about Brexit. My view is for Brexit we put everyone in the lifeboat after first dousing them in a bucket of cold water, then you light a fire in the boat to warm them up again, with the fire being on top of the wooden hull. The UK and EU economies are tightly coupled, and Brexit does not soften the blow of problems in the EU zone. Rather it makes them worse as at the moment we are damaging our economic performance. Noticed the devaluation of our currency. We will be worse able to face any future down turn and we have lost our influence.

Our country indeed has problems, much of it attitude. We need to get our heads down and work and stop expecting the world to owe us a living and ditch our over exaggerated and arrogant belief in our value. We need to sort out distribution of wealth in the country. We need to start selling more than we buy. Our poor balance of trade performance is not the EU's fault it is ours. And we need to sort out our ageing population and what we do about paying for them and looking after them, they hit the NHS far harder than the migrants who are paying into the system to support our country. Face it guys the baby boomers have taken too much and not given enough in the past, you cannot expect the younger to keep on bailing out the older generation.

This current government is not tackling the problems our country has, instead it is wasting time on this stupid Brexit is well we do not know what but it makes for a good slogan people can chant. What a sad state our country has fallen to, blindly marching to Rupert Murdoch's tune.

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