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Who is really running the country?


Chris_L 5 5.3k United Kingdom
1 Dec 2019 1:03PM
Firstly, "yet the BBC - and often Channel 4 keep slamming Corbyn's Labour Party with largely false accusations". NO THEY DO NOT. They report high profile allegations made by others. If they did not report those they would be accused of bias.

Andrew Marr will tell you the BBC is inherently left wing, he has said as much: "the liberal bias of the BBC is the product of the types of people the Corporation employs, and is thus cultural not political. In 2011, Peter Oborne wrote in his Daily Telegraph blog, "Rather than representing the nation as a whole, it [the BBC] has become a vital resource – and sometimes attack weapon – for a narrow, arrogant Left-Liberal elite".

Speaking to journalists at a Broadcasting Press Guild lunch in 2009, Jeremy Hunt, the Shadow Cabinet Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, claimed that BBC News needed more people from the centre-right: "I wish they would go and actively look for some Conservatives to be part of their news-gathering team, because they have acknowledged that one of their problems is that people who want to work at the Corporation tend to be from the centre-left. That's why they have this issue with what Andrew Marr called an innate liberal bias."

Other commentators have taken the opposite view and criticised the BBC for being part of The Establishment. The commentator Mehdi Hasan in the New Statesman pointed out the right-wing backgrounds of many BBC presenters and journalists, querying why even many "liberals and leftists" accept the right's description of BBC bias Guardian columnist Owen Jones is also of the opinion that the BBC is biased towards the right owing to numerous key posts being filled by Conservatives.

So, it depends who you ask. I watched the two manifesto unveils, Corbyn had a much easier ride than Johnson. I've friends who work there, have sat in the 'gallery' while George Alagiah presented the 6 o clock news and had coffee with friends of friends who work there, I see what they post non-publicly on Facebook. They are so left wing, some of them, that they are blinded by it - most of my friends see me as a leftie, I think if I got to know those people better they'd think I was Hitler. That's just anecdotal and from limited experience and hardly evidence.

Garth you think they are right wing. Did the PM get off lightly today? Go figure.

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Chris_L 5 5.3k United Kingdom
1 Dec 2019 1:42PM

Quote:As for the GOP I hope they suffer at the ballot box they are shameful.

Hopefully they do this time. They have learned a dangerous lesson from Trump, you can talk complete rubbish, jokingly not keep promises and still get elected.

in 2024 we'll see someone with a better brain copy Trump's method of getting enough votes, from the primaries to the White House, held aloft by 'deplorables' and funded by the Mercers and Christian Right (who are so Christian that they helped Trump the p*ssy grabber!)

Meanwhile the Democrats are like two parties. The Goldman Sachs Clintonites - the ones who are Democrats in name only for electoral reasons - then the more socialist real Democrats like Bernie Sanders' crowd. Obama's administration was something of a compromise. Some biographies paint him as hard left, I think he is more centrist.

When Blair modernised Labour the thing he realised was there was no point having policies that made you unelectable. You had to sell out so that you could get some time in power, but at least you would get some things done, things that the Tories would not have done. The Tories had been right about Vote Blair Get Brown.

Brown and Darling were there at the worst possible time. It's wrong to blame them for the recession. It was started in the US, the Subprime Mortgage Market where you could get $1M house, not have to show proof of income. People were buying them and 'flipping' them, which made them money - whilst house prices were always going up til the bubble burst, the variable interest rates shot up, the defaults started

These risky (now bad) debts had been sliced up and mixed in with other loans which should have spread the risk so wide as to stop a negative impact but there was no way of easily telling which were toxic and investment banks like Lehman Brothers held enormous amounts. There was a run on Bear Stearns, saved by a rival who paid pennies it wasn't enough. It was one of the first dominoes. I remember in Newcastle queues outside Northern Rock. This was not Labour's handling of the economy. It started on Wall Street and due to the way everything was interconnected we had no choice but to do bailouts.
1 Dec 2019 1:47PM

Quote:.. the types of people it employs..
Sarah Sands?
He lied his way through that interview just like he does every time and Marr didn’t pick up on them.




gcarth Plus
15 3.3k 1 United Kingdom
1 Dec 2019 2:14PM

Quote:NO THEY DO NOT. They report high profile allegations made by others. If they did not report those they would be accused of bias.
1.So why do they never investigate allegations of Israeli Embassy interference in Corbyn's Labour Party?
2.Why, in their Panorama hatchet job on Corbyn, did they give a platform to Friends of Israel in the Labour Party without interviewing the many Jews who dismiss the massively exaggeration claims of anti-semitism?

Quote:Andrew Marr will tell you the BBC is inherently left wing, he has said as much: "the liberal bias of the BBC is the product of the types of people the Corporation employs, and is thus cultural not political.
Andrew Marr is a Blairite or Lib Dem 'centrist'. He is part of the establishment media bubble - otherwise he wouldn't be sitting where he is - as Noam Chomsky pointed out.
I challenge you to name a genuine left wing figure that works for the political departments of the BBC.

Quote:Jeremy Hunt, the Shadow Cabinet Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, claimed that BBC News needed more people from the centre-right: "I wish they would go and actively look for some Conservatives to be part of their news-gathering team, because they have acknowledged that one of their problems is that people who want to work at the Corporation tend to be from the centre-left.
Christ almighty! Do you actually accept anything that Hunt says? The BBC at best, is centre-right - about where the Lib Dems are.

I did say in my previous comment that the BBC are not totally left or right wing - these matters cannot be properly discussed in such binary terms - every thing is more nuanced than that. However, I still maintain that the BBC is still on balance, biased to the centre-right (obviously other media outlets are even more right leaning).


Quote:They are so left wing, some of them...

But how much influence do these leftist workers have with the top news editors and BBC top brass?


Quote:Garth you think they are right wing. Did the PM get off lightly today? Go figure.

As I think I said before: Marr did a pretty good job today but of course, not all the Tories in the BBC like Boris Johnson...
gcarth Plus
15 3.3k 1 United Kingdom
1 Dec 2019 2:17PM
Chris_L. I do agree with your comments about the GOP. Smile
gcarth Plus
15 3.3k 1 United Kingdom
1 Dec 2019 4:46PM
I should add that I think Channel Four is a bit less biased than the BBC on the subject of anti-Semitism. They recently broadcast a fairly long interview with Miriam Margoyles (Jewish) and she said the Chief Rabbi was wrong in his deplorable condemnation of Corbyn.
She seemed to like Corbyn and said he was not anti-Semitic, though she had doubts about his leadership abilities.
Chris_L 5 5.3k United Kingdom
1 Dec 2019 9:22PM
Please don't quote Chomsky, his legs have gone. He's a has been.

And you're cherry picking Garth, when they pull Corbyn to pieces it's bias, when they pull Johnson to pieces you call it "a pretty good job".


Quote:Sarah Sands
Plenty of previous Today editors have backgrounds on the left.


Quote:I challenge you to name a genuine left wing figure that works for the political departments of the BBC
I challenge you to name a right winger!

Find a different study to this one that backs up your views because you are part of a small minority who think the BBC has any bias and a right-wing bias at that.

Don't forget, it's the Tories who have constantly threatened to privatise / sell off the BBC. Murdoch and his rags have cried foul play because, unlike Murdoch's TV channels, the BBC gets shedloads of public money to spend on sports rights or game shows - he's got a point. BBC know which side their bread is buttered. It's not on the right, it's not on the far left either.
gcarth Plus
15 3.3k 1 United Kingdom
2 Dec 2019 9:10AM

Quote:Please don't quote Chomsky, his legs have gone. He's a has been.
That's a weak argument not worthy of you. When Chomsky made the remarks about Andrew Marr, Chomsky was in his prime and commanded great respect from genuine truth seekers.

Quote:And you're cherry picking Garth, when they pull Corbyn to pieces it's bias, when they pull Johnson to pieces you call it "a pretty good job".

You make another weak argument: Corbyn has been constantly smeared by all the media, including the BBC, whereas Johnson has had a pretty free pass considering his mendacious personality and record.
Crucially, over the years, the BBC has not attempted to challenge lies and half-truths consistently made against Corbyn while only now, after all this time, have they really tackled Johnson - with Andrew Marr's interview.

Quote:I challenge you to name a right winger!
Well, for starters - Laura Kuenssberg; Andrew Neil (ex Murdoch editor).

Quote:Don't forget, it's the Tories who have constantly threatened to privatise / sell off the BBC.

Yes - and that's precisely why the BBC is playing to the Tory i.e. right wing agenda: They dare not go too far against right leaning views. It's really that simple.
Chris_L 5 5.3k United Kingdom
2 Dec 2019 12:59PM

Quote:You make another weak argument: Corbyn has been constantly smeared by all the media, including the BBC, whereas Johnson has had a pretty free pass considering his mendacious personality and record.

You are so right. I am tired of waiting for the press to take away Boris Johnson's Free Pass. Then we might start seeing some stories about his lurid private life. Due to his Free Pass there's been nothing like that. He's never in the papers. No fun is poked at him, I found out, from history books, that he was once in the Bullingdon Club. Good job he's got that Free Pass from the media otherwise they'd mention that regularly. Have you any idea if he's married or in a relationship? Does he give money to pole dancers? It's time the press dug deeper and started moving the Corbyn stories over and doing one about Boris.
Chris_L 5 5.3k United Kingdom
2 Dec 2019 1:21PM
Are you sure Boris has a free pass? I've been searching for news stories and if I do a search, restricted to news, for Boris Johnson Accused Of versus Jeremy Corbyn Accused Of it seems that there are 9,670 reports detailing accusations against Jeremy and 36,600 reports about Boris.

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His free pass must have expired Garth?

If you do the search and choose Past 24 Hours from the Tools Menu, there (at the time I'm writing this) are 9 negative stories about Boris and 1 about Jeremy.
gcarth Plus
15 3.3k 1 United Kingdom
2 Dec 2019 3:02PM

Quote:His free pass must have expired Garth?
Well, I would like to think so. Who knows?
Why do you bring up the last 24 hours? The media has been smearing Corbyn for years - The damage is done.
Hopefully, the damage has now been done to Johnson, too.
The point is that the accusations against Corbyn have been mainly lies whereas those against Johnson are mainly true.
Johnson's behaviour has been so beyond the pale that of course he's recently been roasted.
Many minds have been poisoned against Corbyn and Labour well before the election campaign.
The media have generally probed Johnson but not so much the Tories in general - and especially not the Blairites.

The BBC was never left-leaning – only Blairite leaning – and still is Blairite (i.e.Tory leaning).
The BBC Trust was always full of business people and Tories.
Of course the Trust has been superseded by OFCOM which is still packed with businessmen and a business woman (also chair of John Lewis Partnership).
Graham Mather was a Conservative MEP.
Nick Pollard was former head of Sky News (Murdoch).
Just like the BBC Trust, the OFCOM board are appointed by the government.
Therefore, how can any sane person seriously expect the BBC to be unbiased when such an unrepresentative board monitors them?

As I keep saying, this is not a binary or “black and white” issue: The BBC does broadcast fair and unbiased interviews and reporting much or most of the time: However, I maintain that it also often fails dismally to be unbiased and fair on certain crucial political issues. My criticism of the BBC are not so much about mendaciousness but a failure by omission and a failure to investigate and give voice to alternative views.
Just a few examples:

1. Why did the BBC give so little coverage to the hundreds of thousands of protestors marching in 2003 against the Iraq war?
2. Why does the BBC never investigate the interference by the Israeli Embassy in Labour Party affairs?
3. Why does the BBC not investigate the internationally illegal and appalling treatment of Julian Assange?
4. Why did the BBC not investigate allegations that Venezuela’s economic problems were mainly caused by US sanctions and the exercise of US global power in undermining Venezuelan government institutions?

I’m aware that the BBC has produced some excellent investigative programmes in the past re: the super rich, and the appalling behaviour of the financial sector surrounding the 2008 economic collapse.
The problem is that these more decent investigations and reporting tend to mask the BBC’s abuses of media freedom and expression in other programmes.

In short, the BBC is tainted with corruption like the rest of the establishment – or indeed, like the rest of us. Remember the Lord Acton observation that “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”. He was so correct in that assertion. History has proven time and time again that it is human nature that power in a clique of unaccountable hands inevitably corrupts and distorts justice and equality in a society.




Chris_L 5 5.3k United Kingdom
3 Dec 2019 2:28AM
Did you find any studies like the one I found to back up your claims that the BBC is right wing?

As for who gets the most bad press, I did two searches, last 24 hours and the most recent news stories.

Are you seriously suggesting that it would be fairer to do a search of all time and that Jeremy Corbyn will appear more than Boris Johnson!!

Corbyn had an amazing leadership election victory and has been leader of the Labour Party far longer than Johnson has led the Tories, and if the press do hate him and they do give Johnson a free pass then why is that there are 62 million stories about Boris but only half that about Corbyn.

Because Boris Johnson doesn't get a free pass He's regularly ridiculed and his private life is constantly in the papers.


.

gcarth Plus
15 3.3k 1 United Kingdom
3 Dec 2019 11:46AM

Quote:Did you find any studies like the one I found to back up your claims that the BBC is right wing?
Loads. Too many to submit here, though I mention the the Peter Oborne quote further down this page. Meanwhile, I would recommend you read the Glasgow University Media Group's analyses and the Media Lens book "Propaganda Blitz".


Quote:Are you seriously suggesting that it would be fairer to do a search of all time and that Jeremy Corbyn will appear more than Boris Johnson!!
I’m seriously suggesting that it would be fairer and also common sense to cover the months of blatant bias against Corbyn by much of the media in order to obtain a true picture of general media coverage in the UK.
I’ve already pointed out to you that Johnson has only relatively recently and rightly had a heavily critical media coverage (for lying and talking about defying the Law) while Corbyn has had unfair coverage from Day1 for being truthful.
I also pointed out that the BBC has repeatedly failed to investigate or attempt to debunk anti-Semitism claims and Israeli Embassy interference in Labour Party affairs.
I might add that the BBC, like the Guardian, has failed to investigate the obvious tactics of the Blairite “Friends of Israel” to undermine Corbyn.

In 2015, Corbyn criticised the Blairites and Tories for backing US warmongering foreign policy:
Peter Oborne (a Tory!) said “It is deeply upsetting that the BBC has betrayed its own rules of impartiality and ignored Corbyn’s brave stand on this issue”.

Quote:As for who gets the most bad press, I did two searches, last 24 hours and the most recent news stories.

As I've already tried to tell you it is surely only objective and logical to cover months if not years of media coverage to determine bias.

Quote:Because Boris Johnson doesn't get a free pass He's regularly ridiculed and his private life is constantly in the papers.

Well, if you're talking about the recent past and present, I would agree with that but that because his appalling behaviour couldn't be ignored any longer - but that does not in any way disprove the obvious bias against Corbyn in the BBC and media, generally.

Another example of BBC bias: Tim Llewellyn, former BBC Middle East correspondent, said the BBC coverage of Israel and Palestine is "replete with imbalance and distortion".

As I have to keep repeating, the BBC is not totally biased all the time but it frequently shows bias in matters of certain political and current affairs.
I still maintain that no reasonable person can seriously consider the BBC's Panorama: "Is The Labour Party Anti-Semitic?" to be a fair and honest investigation - and of course that was quite a recent programme.

As I've said before, we should agree to disagree.Smile
Chris_L 5 5.3k United Kingdom
3 Dec 2019 3:56PM

Quote:Loads. Too many to submit here, though I mention the the Peter Oborne quote further down this page. Meanwhile, I would recommend you read the Glasgow University Media Group's analyses and the Media Lens book "Propaganda Blitz".

This Glasgow stuff peaked in 1986, there's been little from them since 2004, three lecturers attacking newscasters the Observer called them.

I'm glad you found some studies to contradict mine. I found tons as well, ones that completely rubbish all of your claims, but too many to submit here


Quote:As I've already tried to tell you it is surely only objective and logical to cover months if not years of media coverage to determine bias..
and what you clearly don't understand is that I did that and it results in 64 million Johnson stories and only 32 million Corbyn stories and it's not because the media is more biased against Johnson, do you not understand that one has been in the public eye far longer and it could not be a fair comparison for me to use to attack your argument with. That's why I chose recent stories as they both have high profiles at the moment. I easily win the argument if I use years of data.


Quote:Another example of BBC bias: Tim Llewellyn, former BBC Middle East correspondent, said the BBC coverage of Israel and Palestine is "replete with imbalance and distortion".
You have a confirmation bias. That's an example of you automatically believing Tim Llewellyn because he confirms your bias.

It's not even an example of bias, it's an example of someone claiming bias without any data to back it up. He's all over the place, has an agenda of his own, I don't find him credible and I will take anything he says with a pinch of salt. You can hang on to his every word if you like?

If you want to agree to differ then do so but don't give new opinions expecting them to be accepted without challenge.
gcarth Plus
15 3.3k 1 United Kingdom
3 Dec 2019 9:56PM

Quote: I easily win the argument if I use years of data.
I'm not interested in who wins arguments: I'm interested in being truthful and objective and the only way to do that is to look at data over a substantial period of time. You're not making any sense to me.
I've already conceded that Johnson hasn't had a free pass with much of the media in recent times but Corbyn has been smeared mercilessly ever since he became leader of the Labour Party. I'm not disputing your statistics - though I am surprised. However, they're not relevant to the question of the BBC and other media being right or left leaning overall.
I'm saying that over the years up to and including the present time, Corbyn and his Labour cabinet have been smeared by most of the mainstream media, and the BBC has never properly investigated those smears. Of course, that's all part of the general right leaning bias that's always been there and always will be into the foreseeable future.
Every time I go into a newspaper shop I look at the headlines and virtually all I see is things like: "Corbyn is a Russian spy" or Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser": "Corbyn is a security threat" - day after day after day - for years now. And the BBC and the rest of the media fails to even question these lies and all the other "anti-Semitic" nonsense.

By the way, I assure you over the next few days before the election, Corbyn will be attacked by most of the media like a pack of wolves and please don't try to tell me that most of the media will support him.

Quote:You have a confirmation bias. That's an example of you automatically believing Tim Llewellyn because he confirms your bias.
Well, I do think his view should be considered, don't you? He did work for the BBC, after all...

Quote:It's not even an example of bias, it's an example of someone claiming bias without any data to back it up. He's all over the place, has an agenda of his own, I don't find him credible and I will take anything he says with a pinch of salt. You can hang on to his every word if you like?
So, how do you know if he has an agenda and is not credible? Do you have any evidence to back it up?
Anyway, what about Peter Oborne, the Tory that I mentioned: Does he have a left wing agenda? Well, I'll answer that for you. No of course he doesn't - he simply likes honesty and fair play.

Oh, and here is a list of right leaning BBC Political editors and presenters:
Laura Kunessberg - found to have been in breach of BBC rules on impartiality during for an "attack piece" on Jeremy Corbyn.
Fiona Bruce - pro Conservative public school girl guilty of attacking Diane Abbot on Question Time.
Nick Robinson - political editor at the BBC and former chairman of extreme right wing Federation of Conservatives Students.
Andrew Neil - former of Chair of the extreme right wing Federation of Conservative Students, Former editor in Chief of the Conservative journal The Spectator.
Thea Rogers – Conservative BBC political producer who left to work with George Osborne.
Robbie Gibb - BBC Political Editor of programing vice-chairman of the extreme rightwing Federation of Conservative Students hired by Theresa May as Director of Communications.
Craig Oliver – Conservative Editor of BBC News became David Cameron’s Director of Communications.
Guto Harri – Conservative BBC Political Correspondent recruited by Boris Johnson as London Mayor.
Chris Patten – Ex Conservative Party Minister and former Chairman of the BBC.
James Harding, Conservative director of news and former editor of Rupert Murdoch publication The Times.

So, is it really so difficult to accept that the BBC might be right leaning?




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