Who is really running the country?


gcarth Plus
15 3.1k 1 United Kingdom
11 Sep 2019 12:03PM

Quote:Sadly, too many people seem to unwilling or incapable of thinking for themselves and just swallow what their red-top newspaper feeds them.
Well, yes but I think the "tabloid" and TV media are also responsible for spouting propaganda and generally one-sided arguments and criticisms. In other words even the most intelligent and discerning of people can be easily fooled because they can't rely on truthful presentation of news and ideas. Virtually all the media is infiltrated by intelligence operatives or their minions according to Roy Greenslade - a journalist who used to write about the intelligence services.
The trouble is that even highly intelligent people don't all think for themselves. They are like the rest of us ordinary plebs - they believed what they want to believe - they choose whichever argument or medium that fits their prejudices.


Quote:Maybe Jacob Rees-Mogg was right when he remarked that people with a state education are as intelligent as potted plants!
Jacob Rees-Mogg is a potted plant!


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thewilliam2 2 1.3k
11 Sep 2019 12:56PM
When we were at grammar schools in different parts of the country, my wife and I were taught "critical reading" in our English classes, whereby we would think about what we were reading without either accepting or believing it. Such heresy was fine for the 1960s but couldn't be allowed to continue!

In the modern world, hasn't the rule become the last and greatest command of the Party (any political party and not just EngSoc) which is to reject the evidence of our own eyes and ears?
11 Sep 2019 1:30PM
..or just not let you see it ...
gcarth Plus
15 3.1k 1 United Kingdom
11 Sep 2019 3:25PM

Quote:..or just not let you see it ...
The Yellow Hammer Report comes to mind.

I obviously lean to the left but I'm sure the left are capable of the same deceptions, tyrannies and corruption as the right if the wrong sort of leaders are in power for too long.

thewilliam2 2 1.3k
11 Sep 2019 5:17PM
That Operation Yellowhammer reminds me of the Civil Defence measures from the Cold War days of the 1970s!
jondf 13 2.7k
12 Sep 2019 12:57PM
The questioner asks who is really running the country?
As is usually the case, it's a difficult question to answer due to the many different sub-sections of actual 'running'. County councils, emergency services, companies, the legal system, utility watch dogs, the press, the internet etc. etc. ....oh yes, and parliament. All government can do is tweak a small rudder guiding a very big ship. There's a saying that goes 'Evil triumphs when good men do nothing' ....which then raises the question - what are all you good people actually doing to address your heartfelt grievances apart from posting on a chat forum? Yet despite the media's obsession with chaos and a forthcoming armagedan, how much of our personal daily lives have changed to the point where we'd really notice? Try staying away from the media and the internet for a month and you'll feel a lot better for it ....I know I would Tongue
Carabosse 16 41.3k 270 England
12 Sep 2019 12:58PM

Quote:That Operation Yellowhammer reminds me of the Civil Defence measures from the Cold War days of the 1970s!


We are in a cold war of sorts, with the vested interests - in this case with the unelected bureaucracy of the EU.
gcarth Plus
15 3.1k 1 United Kingdom
12 Sep 2019 2:55PM

Quote:what are all you good people actually doing to address your heartfelt grievances apart from posting on a chat forum?
Writing to our MP or signing petitions - but politicians don't listen. Don't forget the elephant in the room - the establishment orientated media.

Quote:We are in a cold war of sorts, with the vested interests - in this case with the unelected bureaucracy of the EU.

Why blame only the "unelected bureaucracy of the EU"? There are other dark forces at work like the hidden hand of the US and Israel administrations. Surely you can't mention vested interests without highlighting the influence of US and Israel.
Brexiters seem to have this childlike obsession with the notion that the UK can gain sovereignty by leaving the EU or regain our white 'British Empirical' identity.
I'm no political expert but even I can see that the US and others will exploit the UK if we leave the EU because we will not be in a position to bargain.
The UK will, if anything, have less sovereignty than it does now if it leaves the EU.
I'm not an EU apologist but think that staying in the EU is by far the lesser evil.
Cameron allowed his right wing nuts like Boris Johnson and Rees-Smog to gain control followed by Farage and his gang. None of these individuals care about ordinary people but cynically stir up the population with their populist rhetoric.
Underlining all this, if of course the rotten media that lies and smears people everyday. Of course you get a rotten media if you have rotten politics.
It is beyond me how so many people can still support the serial liar Boris Johnson.
hobbo Plus
8 1.3k 2 England
12 Sep 2019 4:27PM
Are remainers really in support of a future........

UNITED STATES OF EUROPE ? ? 🇬🇧🇪🇺🇫🇷🇩🇪.......

Because that is way it will go .....eventually.....

Just thinking aloud

Hobbo
Carabosse 16 41.3k 270 England
12 Sep 2019 6:28PM

Quote:Are remainers really in support of a future........

UNITED STATES OF EUROPE ?



Well that must be the case.

If you research the origins of the EU-EEC-Common Market, you will see political union was always the intention. But a union operated by officials with only a veneer of 'democracy' with e.g. a toothless European parliament.

Back in the 1950s/60s/70s that would not have been acceptable. However by "baby steps" that is (pretty much) where the EU is today.

It is also known in some circles as the "totalitarian tiptoe".

hobbo Plus
8 1.3k 2 England
12 Sep 2019 7:02PM
Mmmmmm !

With Federal Police / Government / Taxes and a President...plus multiple states each with its own Governor, and local authorities based upon on the US model....not forgetting a huge Federal Army.

Do we really want that ?

Would we get an .....EUHS....to replace our.... NHS ?

HOBBO
strawman 15 22.1k 16 United Kingdom
12 Sep 2019 7:07PM
There is a religious zeal these days in leave. It started with a few blatant lies that a lot of people swallowed and even now I see a few of them repeated above. For example the un-elected EU, and yet our country democracy is what???
so yes you voted for Dom as PM did you?
Or did you vote for his puppet Boris as PM?
Are you happy at how our country has been abused and damaged by leave. Ah yes better to chant a few Daily Express headlines than face facts, democracy in the UK. Lets not look at expelling party members, no we have not seen that sort of behaviour prior to WW2. Nige's funding shall we. Oh he is a poor privately educated banker who is banked by some dodgy people, And people swallow it, its like a really bad comedy act.. Yes lots of deductive reasoning going on with leave. If only the joke was not on the UK.

And are you happy that Leave has gone from being better for the country, to something we must do, to well we can take the pain. Worse than the 2008 recession, bring it on after all we get to be our own country. Well after we do what the US tells us, oh and after we still have to comply with the EU laws, laws we had influence over. Oh well never mind our passports will be blue, even if made outside the UK. What you mean they could have been blue inside the EU. A good symbol of Brexit, all talk and under the cover disappointing and badly thought out

Just go onto the governments own web site and tick the boxes to say you are a business that imports and exports and check out the wonderful new ways in which hard Brexit makes it harder for UK companies.

Our mess, mainly because the leave cheerleaders did not understand the modern world, has devalued our country and well its not like anyone said leave was a bad idea. We deserve this we brought it on ourselves. Will the emperors new clothes be re-written on Brexit.

Yes leave is going well the Germans have backed down, and we have our elected parliament at work. The deal was as easily negotiated. Investment in the UK has risen. The economy has performed better than those around. We talk and the world listens. And we are lead by an honest person who has never lied. Yes leave is going so well.

thewilliam2 2 1.3k
12 Sep 2019 7:41PM
Operation Yellowhammer predicts that lower earners will be doing particularly badly after a hard Brexit.

Not good news for a pensioner couple!
Carabosse 16 41.3k 270 England
12 Sep 2019 7:52PM
We have a parliament totally unrepresentative of the referendum result. That is the problem and fundamentally there is no other.

Economic arguments are irrelevant: the Leave vote was not based on that. Some will recall it was about Taking Back Control. For better or for worse......... speaking of which we have (hopefully) moved away from the days when people almost always stayed in abusive marriages just for economic reasons. That is the analogy.

gcarth Plus
15 3.1k 1 United Kingdom
12 Sep 2019 8:23PM

Quote:...Taking Back Control. For better or for worse......... speaking of which we have (hopefully) moved away from the days when people almost always stayed in abusive marriages just for economic reasons. That is the analogy.
But is it a good analogy?
A better analogy would be that we might be leaving one abusive marriage for another similar but even worse marriage!

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