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samfurlong 15 2.5k United Kingdom
24 Jun 2006 9:18AM
Yeah I know but I think its possibly the stupidest practice going and I have never and will never get involved. When I do freelance PR / event work and someone asks me to pay I just tell them to find another photographer, and I have a lot of colleagues who do the same. It's a stupid practce and we as an industry shouldn't be encouraging it!

It's okay for the big boys who have lots of money but it causes nothing but grief for the rest of us (i'm thinking premiership footy and sky here)!
keithh 17 25.8k 33 Wallis And Futuna
24 Jun 2006 9:26AM
What has Little Sudbury Gymkhana got to do with either Sky or The Premiership?
samfurlong 15 2.5k United Kingdom
24 Jun 2006 9:37AM
I meant that the whole practice of paying for access makes life difficult for everyone else - and I realise that's the whole point of it - but it's ****. Call me old fashioned but I believe if your pics are good enough (and in the case of sport if you can deliver fast enough) then you'll be able to sell them regardless of how many other togs are at an event.
I cited premiership as an example cos thats where my experience lies - either footy or rugby, if sky are there then there are parts of the pitch you can't go on, restrictions of the numbers of togs in case you block too many adversising boads and piss advertisers off etc... It's a similar principle and the whole setup really gets my goat so when I have a choice I won't get involved!
keithh 17 25.8k 33 Wallis And Futuna
24 Jun 2006 9:41AM
I can see it now....14 togs at the water jump all trying to flog Henrietta's mother a shot of her little darling in the water.

I know full well how it works with Sky..and the BeeB or anyone else for that matter, but you can't argue with the millions they've ploughed in...such is life.
samfurlong 15 2.5k United Kingdom
24 Jun 2006 9:51AM
Doesn't mean you have to like it!
keithh 17 25.8k 33 Wallis And Futuna
24 Jun 2006 9:53AM
I have other things to worry about and if I thought I was going to make money out of it...or needed to...I'd buy as many events as I could lay my hands on.
samfurlong 15 2.5k United Kingdom
24 Jun 2006 10:21AM
Ah well, I suppose you events photographers know your stuff. Not really my area if I can help it but if a job comes along that pays enough and happens to be an event then who am I to argue?!
ZenTog 19 7.9k 1 England
24 Jun 2006 1:42PM
the event paying thing starts as a donation to the charity involved often the air ambulance. at bigger
events we pay sometimes as much as 150pounds but then we take four figures Sam , do your maths. if it wasnt for profit I wouldnt be there either
but looking at what news paper hack gets paid down here 15.00 per picture in print then I think I make more, plus I also submit for pr for the riding clubs to the local papers.

one or two events have got very greedy wanitn larger sums of money each year for the photographers rights, one even put it out to tender this year!!!

I also do PR for bigger sporting events some like the European kite surfing champs etc then I am on a day rate plus large expeneses food and drink thrown in so I do know the score
barnowl 16 697
24 Jun 2006 1:47PM
Hey Paul if the food and drink are thrown in I will come and work for you for sweet fa. I'm a growing lad after all Smile
ZenTog 19 7.9k 1 England
24 Jun 2006 2:19PM
hey gary you would have liked the last pr job I did shooting a surfer for fosters Lager had free lager plus steak char grilled burgers all day long plus had the really hard job of following three page three models for the day
and they paid me!!!
mattw 17 5.2k 10 United Kingdom
24 Jun 2006 3:13PM
Nice one Paul!
I just can't work out why everone wants to be a pro photographer.....

Just Jas 19 26.3k 1 England
24 Jun 2006 4:55PM
Oh dear! Another one of these threads!
samfurlong 15 2.5k United Kingdom
24 Jun 2006 10:07PM
yeah you're right 15.00n a pic is piss poor and theres no way i would work for that and if you make a profit despite paying to be at an event then good on you. maybe its the norm in event photography these days, as i said i am in a different field really so i wouldnt really know.
Whatever - all thats irrelivent. My original point was that you (and i dont mean you personally but all horsey photographers generally) dont have to be such a closed shop - not everyone is out to get you. try being a bit nicer and you'll find people are much nicer back. I smashed up my long lens at a press conference recently and another bloke from a rival publication was kind enough to let me use his for 10 mins so i could get my shots, a few weeks earlier i had lent him a camera battery cos he'd left his on charge in the office and come out without it (he still hasnt lived it down) - what goes around comes around, thats all i am trying to say!!
keithh 17 25.8k 33 Wallis And Futuna
24 Jun 2006 10:13PM
15 a pic???? Wow that's half what local press pay....mind you, you'd sell a shed load more prints on the day and from the day.

I talk to the local guys at the LTA events and it always saddens me to hear what pennies they work for. You'd think somebody would have stood up for them by now.
ZenTog 19 7.9k 1 England
25 Jun 2006 6:12PM
Sam I was nice to a little guy who shadowed me and the rest of my togs at a local one day horse event, he asked about our cameras etc, I offered him a chance to join us and learn the ropes.

week later he turns up with a 350d and hes booking into the same events as our team, thing is most of these shows were very tiny bearly enough for one team never mind two. funny he even offered me a fight!!!
trys making out hes a trained pro to every body , but every body who see his print out put tend to disagree!!!!

Kieht what I do is what you said before I sell output direct to the Riders at a lower price but higher numbers of prints up t0 200 prints per day and after sales as well.
the newspaper sales is peanuts but gives good PR fro both me and the riding clubs

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