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Dancers

By xwang
The photo was taken in Liverpool in May, during Tall Ships Regatta, Dublin and Bordeaux,maritime magic events.
We were leaving, suddenly the music started, the lady (in black) quickly walked toward the gentleman (in hat), grabbed his hand and they began to dance immediately and harmoniously,...It was a wonderful moment.
The problem of this photo is blur, especially the man's face. I can't do anything about it, apart from some shake reduction on PS. I wonder what if "Walking in P mode", I would get. But still Is there anything else can be done about the blur?
I gave it a tight crop, but I'm not sure if I should, I'll upload the original shot on MOD section for you to have a look.

Thanks.


Tags: Street Liverpool Dancers Man and woman

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Comments


dudler Plus
18 1.7k 1884 England
16 Nov 2018 10:00PM
'Walking in P mode' might have worked, and would almost certainly have worked better than 1/125 @ f/10...

In the end, all the choices of mode are only part of the solution, because whichever one you choose, you have to be aware of the settings, and how they will work out for different types of shot. My equivalent of Paul's 'WiPM' is Aperture priority, 200 ISO and f/5.5 (on a lens with a maximum aperture of f/1.4 or f/1.8). The lens is usually 85mm.

But i modify any part of this that is appropriate if I see a particular kind of shot coming up, and raise the ISO if the light's poor.

Vic Blackman was a newspaper photographer who wrote for Amateur Photographer when I first read it back in the late Sixties. Part of his advice was that you should be able to set your camera by touch in the dark. You should know where infinity focus is, how many clicks from maximum aperture f/4 is, which way to turn the shutter dial for action shots. Digital cameras make it easy, because the settings are all in the viewfinder. But you should stil lbe able to alter the ISO with the camera at your eye, and apply exposure compensation. that sort of familiarity saves time and spoiled shots.

So no solution this time, but definite advice to get to know your camera inside out: and to sue an auto mode of some sort for walkabout!
16 Nov 2018 10:02PM
The stance of the female is well worthy an award, but alas you have prevented me from giving you one.

Mike
16 Nov 2018 11:13PM
A good image of this couple dancing, however the rear end of the dog looks like a big tail on the male dancer
Also a leg is growing out of the female dancers left elbow
Background details can be a problem
banehawi Plus
17 2.6k 4274 Canada
17 Nov 2018 5:15AM
Mod loaded. See what you think.
derekp Plus
10 1 5 United Kingdom
17 Nov 2018 8:47AM
As a "grab" shot, you did well.
17 Nov 2018 11:07AM
Love this shot Jasmine.SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile
xwang 12 56 8
17 Nov 2018 12:08PM
Thanks John.
I totally agree with you about 'knowing your camera', but the truth is how many of us can get that stage by either as an amateur, or not taking photos for months in my case sometimes,... unless one practises particularly.
Many years ago, one speaker(I can't remember his name now, he might be on EPZ) came to our local camera club, he asked the audience if any of us could change ISO in dark or other settings blindly without looking,... I thought that was a task. Obviously I can't!
There would be a lot of dialing changings whatever "P" mode or Aperture priority at "F8". The problem of this kind of the shots is that I would never know 'what would happen at the next corner'. One possible solution would be as Paul said:" ..ALWAYS set back to the pre-sets for moving on... "
I don't have 85mm lens, I believe it is a great one, according to the price,.. . This is 105 Focal length, if you look at the original, it has a bit distance. 85mm? Would they dance on my head?Grin

Thanks Brian.
I did notice the dog's tail when I uploaded yesterday. I was going to tell the viewers:"That was a dog's tail, not the man's.." something like that.Grin. But I didn't notice the leg much, only after I read your comments.
I gave up this photo when I saw the blur on his face, but I thought if there is(are) other solution(s). Yes, both should be removed if it's as an acceptable photo.

Thanks Willie.
What have you changed on the second MOD? I'm going to upload the original default for you to have a look. I used the PS's "shake reduction(filter-sharpen-shake reduction)" on face area at the large file, but when I tried again after I resized, it didn't work well.
My computer can't cope with PS's shake reduction, it takes a long time.

Thank you all for the comments.
banehawi Plus
17 2.6k 4274 Canada
17 Nov 2018 1:34PM
Same shake reduction, but selected only the face general area.
cbrundage 8 4 United States
17 Nov 2018 4:36PM
Their legs are at such crazy angles, it makes for a fun photo!
mrswoolybill Plus
15 3.0k 2465 United Kingdom
18 Nov 2018 9:45AM
I love it for the timing, the angles of angles of the legs, the fact that both of them have a foot off the ground. In a sense that's more important than his face.

First lesson to draw from this though - just because it's a grab shot doesn't mean that you have to rush and only take one. With a situation like this I assume that the opportunity will last at least a minute, maybe more. So take a few seconds to check what you're doing. There have been many occasions when I have grabbed a few pictures, wandered on, come back ten minutes later and people were still doing the same thing...

The main priority for me here would be shutter speed. At least 1/250 second, preferably faster if you want to freeze faces and extremities reliably.

That would allow a larger aperture without increasing ISO - and that would also be nice.

John quotes 'walking in P mode', if I'm looking for people shots it's shutter speed priority, 1/160 second or faster, and I can adjust that in a fraction of a second. Check the light regularly to see what aperture you are getting, adjust ISO as necessary... I guess it's a matter of what individual photographers are comfortable with - but to be comfortable with a system you do need to exercise it regularly!

Moira


paulbroad 14 131 1293 United Kingdom
18 Nov 2018 10:07AM
I followed Vic Blackman regularly in AP and met him twice. A very fine and knowledgeable photographer from the 'real' world who taught me a lot. No messing, no arty farty, the result is what counts. He was dead right on camera controls. I learnt the positions of mode, shutter speed and compensation dials on my Fuji's and can adjust without taking them from the eye. Click stopped dials are MUCH better than menus!

I know what a good photographer you had become when I last regularly saw your work, Jas, so I'm going to be a bit hard. There are a number of comments above which do not help - of the 'wonderful shot' genre!

You have the best gear money can buy there in terms of body - not sure about the lens though, but you have forgotten the basics. His face is blurred for two reasons, possibly. Subject movement and camera shake. You are on manual - I would have been on aperture priority and one stop down from wide open to try and soften the confusing background, which is distracting. (That one isn't easy to deal with.)

What ISO were you at? None shown. You should have had a shutter speed in excess of 1/500 to freeze movement, unless going for movement blur. However, you say you wanted his face sharp, so you were not going for movement blur.

1/1000 @ f4 or 5.6 depending on lens and a suitable ISO. That camera will stand 1600 with no problems. You also need a bit of dodging in the deeper shadow areas - her bottom for example. Then a bit of burning in of highlights.


You are a good photographer, Jas - stop and think a bit.

Paul
xwang 12 56 8
18 Nov 2018 3:47PM
Thanks Moira.
I agree with you about the shutter speed, which caused the blur, and now it is all " If I knew,..".
I only remembered that we were leaving, I had to take the last few shots as quick as possible.
I just dug up the Liverpool folder, I found that I was taking a boat at 15:33, this one was taken at 15:35, I took another three of the couple, another man sat with his lady waved and posed for me, so I took a photo of them(with regret I never got the photo right); and then my attention was distracted by the sound of the band, I took another three photos of the band, altogether I took 8 photos in one minutes. At 15:36 I move closer to the band, took a shot and two clips of videos. And then I saw a man came with a big hoop, I took 4 photos of him with his partner, the last shot was 15:37(I'll show you the screen shot of the folder). I felt a bit frustrated by not been able to get a proper shot, he was moving very fast with the large hoop,..I changed "F10" to "F18" once during the two minutes, because of the sky behind the band,..sounds I was very busy, made my head spin, even to think about it,..Grin But, thanks a lot for the comment anyway.

Thank you Paul.
I have no problem with whatever you say.., without your earlier critiques I perhaps could never take today's photo. Your short and effective comments are unforgettable and helpful,I especially enjoy your technical knowledge, I wish I could learn more from you on using light, I have no time(lazy person's excuse!). I saw your marco photos, I got a lens but I haven't got ring flash,..
To this photo,..
ISO was 250. I perhaps forgot to tick the "Embed color profile" on PS. Is that one? I had to manually fill in the camera settings.
I'm going to give "P" mode another try, especially when there are a lot of people around. I did once, but felt it was a bit fiddling, I had to keep changing it back,.. I have no excuse after your last comment.
Sometimes people pose for me while I was either taking something else or unaware of what happens, those are supposed to be interesting photos, I failed most of them.
Seriously, I'm thinking to have a pocket sized small camera, with large sensor(less noise?) could get the quality as DSLR.
I keep thinking when people talk about the image quality, I guess mostly one is sensor, one is lens. What is the proportion then? I haven't seen a small camera's image is as good as DSLR's. Is the sensor or the lens drag the mirrorless and compact down?
I don't like the 28-300 lens that you are not sure about, I "hate" it, but it is very convenient and the quality of the image is OK, although it is not great as I expected, a bit soft, not sharp. I might ask for too much,..The CA is strong with magenta and green at the edge, it is not easy to get rid of on PS, has to be manually dealt with, easier on LR.I just cope with it,..Thanks again,Paul.
Thank you all for the comments and MODs.
dudler Plus
18 1.7k 1884 England
18 Nov 2018 9:18PM
As somone who has been mirrorless for around four years, I can only suggest that is the way to go.

And for quality, full frame. For compactness, Olympus or Lumix.

Canon are the least of the full frame players, and I'd suggest: the ergonomics will probably disappoint you. Sony have a long record with mirrorless now, and I am particularly delighted with the AF in my latest body. Nikon are probably in the lead otherwise, as they have copied ergonomics from their top two DSLRs, and used similar sensors. They've also learned from Sony's three generations of CSCs, in a way that Canon appear not to have done. And while I'm sure the Canon lenses for the new model will perform well, they are immensely big, heavy, and expensive. So far, only Sony have a developed range of lenses, but Canon and Nikon will catch up, and both offer cheap adaptors for the existing ranges of glass.

Smaller, lighter, showing exposure effects in the viewfinder: and the best manual focus you can get are advantages that it's hard to sniff at.

There will be no substitute, though, for trying all the options: and if you are seriously interested in buying, the last day of hte show at the NEC in February or March is the time to do it - prices generally start below shop/internet level, and fall at the end of the show..

Make sure that the camera feels right in your hands, and that the controls feel natural (though whatever you buy, it will be different from a Canon DSLR - possibly more so with the new Canon CSC than with Sony or Nikon models).

But even then, it won't be pocket-sized.
xwang 12 56 8
19 Nov 2018 12:18PM
Thanks John.
For DSLR, I might have to stay with Canon. The most "annoying" thing of the industry is that we, as users, can't interchange the lens. I have several Canon L lenses to get rid of if I change another manufactory for start,..and to buy a whole lot of new ones. Canon Mark IV's color is better than Mark III. I presume the most changes are Resolution and 4K video. I need to change computer before I learn to edit videos,.. so it's not much useful for me at the moment,.. I'll see what happens on Mark V,..
I'm seriously in a small camera, but a bit "picky" for several reasons.
I was delighted with digital's light weight and capability of low light when I bought the first bridge camera, but frustrated with noise and digital zoom. I missed a lot of photos because of the shutter lag, so mirrorless should be one of the consideration.
I bought Canon M a few years ago, there are a few issues that I stopped using it. Years passing by, I think the technology has improved, but still they are not small.
I don't mind what camera it is, as long as it delivers the result, since I'm not technical. I read some reviews and looked some images, I found that images that taken by non-DSLR, were lack of the "3D" feelings,..compressed too much. I know, this is not a technical word. 'It's a picture, what are you talking about?' You might say, but if you look at them carefully, there is difference. I only know what I like,...and it makes me wonder makes a good quality image..sensor or lens? Both? Any proportion or combination saying?
Thank you for the info of NEC. I have never been there, it's good to know that the price is better, although I might not be able to attend to.
dudler Plus
18 1.7k 1884 England
20 Nov 2018 10:27AM
If you buy a Canon R body, you can have a cheap adaptor to allow you to use all your L series glass on it. The Canon M series aren't a great example of mirrorless: definitely mid-level consumer, rather than serious amateur/professional. The Alpha 6000 and successors work far better, it seems to me. Canon have not regarded mirrorless as important until now, and still aren't taking it as seriously as Sony, Olympus, Panasonic and (now) Nikon.

And you can also buy a Sigma or Metabones adaptor to use the same glass on an Alpha 7 body - a number of landscape photographers bought these when the Alpha range was new, and suddenly offered far higher quality than Canon bodies of the day, as well as more portability.

Part of using different lenses is getting used to them, finding the way to use them well. Ever since I first got an 85mm lens, it's tended to be the one on my camera, and it simply works right, almost all the time. I could do almost all my pictures with an 85 and a 24...

A really good technical exercise is to put one fixed focal length on your camera and shoot with it, taking nothing else with you.

And I'll add - the best value 85mm I have ever owned was a Canon f/1.8, very battered secondhand. I sold it to a friend who uses mainly Canon, as I used it once in a blue moon on my EOS 620, the second Canon AF body...

The NEC show is worth it, for the sake of seeing and trying so much gear in one place. It's easy for me to attend as I live 17 miles away, and I can get there by bus and train. But from further afield, it's worth putting that last day in your diary as soon as they announce the dates. Next year, it's 16-19 March - website HERE.
paulbroad 14 131 1293 United Kingdom
20 Nov 2018 11:01AM
Do you need to change gear? I think not.

As I've got older, I've gone to the Fuji CSC system and am more than a bit impressed. My bird photography has improved dramatically and I rarely use the Canon now - still have two EOS bodies but all last year used the 105 Sigma quite a bit, the 10/20 Sigma a little and nothing else.

Do you need full frame? Again, I think not. Full frame gives 'correct' focal length and D of F, but I do not miss it, and my Fuji work sells well, as do the videos from the XT-20. Full frame for very large enlargements but otherwise I don't think it is necessary.

Paul

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