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Nursery School

By mac
Photographed at our local beach. We get quite a lot nursery schools arriving on the train from Edinburgh (30 mins away) to give the kids beach playtime. Trying out new camera. It can use all the micro four third lens which I already have for the OM-D 5.

Tags: Children Portraits and people

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dudler Plus
17 1.3k 1699 England
8 Jan 2018 5:24PM
As on other occasions, the original file would be interesting to see.

I noted what you said about processing on your previous post - adjusting
Quote:the “levels” followed by RAW File filter to use the highlights, shadows and black & white controls. Sharpened using the “unsharp mask”
, and I imagine you did the same here. There's still something about the way and the extent to which you do this that produces an edgy look, and I wonder if th detailed settings for these can be reduced... For instance, Unsharp Mask (which i don't use myself) has adjustment of amount, radius and threshold, and playing for a minute or two allowed me to get some pretty ugly results. More is not necessarily better, as I have probably said before.

Willie will be able to give soem detail on this, I am pretty sure.
banehawi Plus
16 2.3k 4163 Canada
8 Jan 2018 5:31PM
Yes, - we need step by step, even if you make a cup of tea in the middle, - let us know. Theres something amiss!!!
mac Plus
19 8 Scotland
8 Jan 2018 5:58PM
Methinks the culprit is the Smart Sharpen Filter or is it?
I note my settings as Amount 93%: Radius 1.6: Reduce Noise 10 %:
I thought 93% looked high but it goes up to 500%
As stated worked using the JPG image.
Checked levels, RAW filter for highlights, white, black & shadows
I even reduced the saturation setting!
You would not think I got my LRPS a few years ago, but getting it on prints!
Mod 1 is the original jpg image.
I only had the standard lens with me, whereas the 40 - 150 might have been handier!!

banehawi Plus
16 2.3k 4163 Canada
8 Jan 2018 6:49PM
Ian, - you may well be right. Also, on my Smart Sharpen, CS6, there is no reduce noise option? Are you talking about the Photoshop Smart Sharpen filter, or are you still referring to the RAW converter, which does have a Sharpen (NOT Smart) and a Noise reduction.

Do you shoot RAW and convert to jpeg yourself? Do you apply sharpening on the RAW image? When you export from Lightroom RAW to jpeg, are you checking off any of the options that say which type of sharpening to use, - for print, for screen, or not?

Either way, the amount is excessive for sure for the Smart Sharpen filter as is the Radius. Try a Radius of 0.8, and an amount below 45%

Ive uploaded a screen shot of Smart Sharpen to show what Im talking about

I will check back for answers, we are nearly there!
banehawi Plus
16 2.3k 4163 Canada
8 Jan 2018 7:13PM
Ian, you are not using the Smart Sharpen filter; it looks like you use Unsharp Mask. Those setting s you use are way too aggressive. The last screenshot shows Unsharp Mask in use with very typical settings. ALWAYS set the radius and threshold to what Ive shown, and only use the Amount slider. Its should never need to go above 70%, - if it does the image is too soft to sharpen!!
banehawi Plus
16 2.3k 4163 Canada
8 Jan 2018 7:43PM
Mod or original uploaded with no sharpening used at all. It looks great.
mac Plus
19 8 Scotland
9 Jan 2018 12:39AM
I am running Photoshop CC 19.0 release.
I was using PS Smart Sharpen from Filter menu.
It has the following settings: Amount; Radius; & Reduce Noise
There is also an option to “Remove Lens Blur” which is set to 0
Also, I note from your send I do not have an Advance or Basic choice.
My screen as Mod 7.
I do not seem to have the Export Screen you show. Here is mine as Mod 8
I have never used Lightroom for sharpening of RAW file something to look into!
My Sharp Sharpen has higher levels than you sent.
My settings were Amount 30%; Radius 1.2; Levels 15
Now reduced to your suggestion
I shoot in JPG & RAW.
I used to work on the RAW image and then convert to JPG for Photoshop working.
I now tend to work on the JPG image only.
It would therefore appear from your figures I am over-sharpening now reset to your suggested settings.
paulbroad 13 131 1289 United Kingdom
9 Jan 2018 9:08AM
My type of subject but the processing is well off again. There is over sharpening which may be the cause of the over saturation and high contrast.

I use Smart Sharpen on most images. My base setting is 100%, 1.5 pixels and to correct lens blur. There is no levels (Threshold) setting in smart sharpen, so you are using unsharp mask, which is much more aggressive and there is NO way you should be anywhere near 15!!!! There are advanced and basic settings in smart sharpen.

banehawi Plus
16 2.3k 4163 Canada
9 Jan 2018 3:54PM
Thanks, Ian. I dont have CC19, so I dont see those new additions, but the principles are exactly the same. You may be using CC19 as a RAW editor also?

Looking at your mods, we have essentially exactly the same things in a different format, and a new name. I think we are on the right track.


pamelajean Plus
14 1.4k 2157 United Kingdom
9 Jan 2018 4:21PM
All I want to do, Ian, is work on the original for my modification.

I think the environment is important to the story of the nursery school children visiting the beach.
For the story, the woolly hats tell us it's winter, the high-viz tabbards tell us they are a school group, and the background gives us an idea of the place they are visiting.
I like the way that one of the children has turned around to see what you are doing.
I didn't at first realise there were six children in all.

I straightened the image using the base of the buildings, then brightened it and did a Levels adjustment.
I removed a few bits of seaweed around the people, just for a cleaner background, but didn't go overboard.

I like the way you have removed the other adult in your lead image. It makes a neater composition, but I chose to leave her in.

paulbroad 13 131 1289 United Kingdom
9 Jan 2018 6:49PM
Not sure I agree with you about a maximum of 70% for Smart sharpen, Willie. Works for me to well over 100 depending on the image without problems. Depends how many pixels the image consists of. You can use higher % settings on a 24MP image than on a 12 MP image for example.

It also depends if the image is for screen use or print. You can go much higher for an A3 print.

dark_lord Plus
16 2.6k 695 England
9 Jan 2018 8:49PM
A nice group and you have to grab the opportunity with whatever lens you have at the time but at least there's the optin for cropping here and Pamela's mod works best for me.

Sharpening is really Edge Contrast Increase and here the result is that overall contrast has been increased at the expense of highlight detail. It's moe noticeable on heavily cropped images because there's less information for the algorithms to work with.

I don't apply Unsharp Mask often and even then it's slight. I did some printing a couple of nights ago, and although only A4 none of the images had sharpening applied and they were crisp enough.
Try moving the sliders until you see just a small change, that's often enough.

I don't have Smart Sharpen in Affinity but I find their Unsharp Mask perfectly able. Sometimes I use the High Pass method if I want more/finer control.

paulbroad 13 131 1289 United Kingdom
10 Jan 2018 9:26AM
Print sharpening depends on viewing distance. To look sharp at a distance you can boost sharpening. An A3 is meant to go on a wall, so should be viewed at a few metres, an A4 just hand sized, but professional printing houses, one I know at least, suggests a sharper image for printing.

mac Plus
19 8 Scotland
10 Jan 2018 10:24AM
Thanks for all the comments. I seem to have started a lively debate on the subject of sharpening. I have learnt quite a few tips and now must be more careful of sharpening my final results. This could be what is giving me the "gritty images"?
dudler Plus
17 1.3k 1699 England
10 Jan 2018 11:32AM
I think that is it, precisely, Ian.

Whatever the route is, precisely, the result has been that in doing things that look like a normal sort of workflow, you've ended up with far more sharpening than you realised, and far more than looked comfortable to the rest of us.

You and Willie have got it down to specific settings - and I look forward to seeing pictures with these applied. I suspect that I shall enjoy them a lot.

This has largely overshadowed the artistic content, on which Pamela ahs been articulate and positive!

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