Back Modifications (6)
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The Chapel's window

By xwang
A straight forward shot in Haddon Hall.

This is two layers. I'm trying to work out a quick and easy way to get a good exposure both of the window and interior. Yes, have the cake and eat it..Grin. Basically, simply used selection tool twice, with layer mask, I can't remember now, I did it last week, perhaps 3 and 30 pixels. It only took a few minutes, a lot easier than HDR.

The question is: Is this image can stand up to your high standard scrutiny? ( It was too easy, I couldn't believe it, since I don't know much about PS and I'd spent a lot of time trying to get some reasonable shots in low light).

Perspective was corrected, it took me longer time than fixed the window. And noise was reduced.
Free free to criticize the image. Thanks for looking.

Tags: Window Stained Glass Architecture Chapel Candle

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Comments


NDODS 9 5.2k 127 United Kingdom
25 May 2015 11:39AM
A very well composed and exposed capture with the very well controlled light. I particularly like the detail in and around the alter. Very well processed in Photoshop however it might just be my eyes but the window still looks somewhat bowed and distorted.

Regards NathanGrinGrinGrin

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RobMacormac 15 7 2 England
25 May 2015 12:57PM
I like these chapels as the reformist could not wipe out the decor. Nice shot.
mrswoolybill Plus
13 2.1k 2229 United Kingdom
25 May 2015 12:58PM
Yes, the technique has coped well with difficult light, but I agree with Nathan regarding the verticals. I suspect that part of the problem is that you were not standing at dead centre (the roof beams reveal that), and maybe also the original shot wasn't quite level; getting the right side straight has left an outward tilt on the left.. I wonder if the method you have used has also lost some of the height in the window - this looks lower and squatter than I remember...

How did you adjust the perspective? I prefer to use Skew in less clear-cut cases like this, because it allows the individual corners to be dragged out, or up / down, individually. It needs care though as each corner has a knock-on effect over the whole frame, and loss of apparent height needs to be adjusted for.

I also tend to think that a slight inward inclination for a subject such as a window is easier on the eye, more natural, that perfect verticals.

I'll try a quick modification. Haddon Hall is one of my favourite places in the UK by the way, I love the way it evolved almost organically over several centuries - and then fell out of favour and was neglected, so that it escaped a Victorian make-over...
Moira
mrswoolybill Plus
13 2.1k 2229 United Kingdom
25 May 2015 1:16PM
Modification uploaded, see how it looks to you. I used the Skew tool, drawing the bottom left corner out quite a bit, bottom right rather less, and top left up a bit. Your slightly off-centre view point makes it difficult to correct any further than this, because either the horizontals in the glazing bars or those higher and lower in the frame will be wrong. I left a slight slant in the edges of the window, it's how the eye sees!

I then used Free transform to bring back some height.

I used the burn tool over the altar and the rails, to give them more substance and bring them forward towards the eye.
dark_lord Plus
16 2.6k 675 England
25 May 2015 2:06PM
This looks like the Layer Mask approach has worked well. If it's quick and it works so much the better. You shouldn't need to spend ages correcting an image.
It goes to show that you need to get as square on and central to such a subject to make things easier when adjusting the verticals.

When I use the Free Transform tool to pull out the sides of an image to adjust the verticals I pull up the central handle at the top of the Transform box by about the same amount I've pulled out the sides in order to avoid a squashed result.

Keith
banehawi Plus
16 2.2k 4138 Canada
25 May 2015 2:16PM
Just to confirm what you did Jasmine.

First, you used the HDR capability of the camera to take two images of the same scene, one at 1/1250, and one at 1/80, both at f/9.

Then, rather than producing an HDR image, you used layers to extract the best from each image into a final image.

Do I have it right? Im not really clear on the selection tool and what you did.


Regards


Willie
cbrundage 7 4 United States
25 May 2015 2:33PM
I didn't see the details mentioned by others above - I am looking at photos from a totally different perspective. I love the design on the walls and the way you said you put the picture together sounds great. Get the best of both.
mrswoolybill Plus
13 2.1k 2229 United Kingdom
25 May 2015 2:37PM
Just out of curiosity, I did a bit of Googling and found this picture of the chapel, with the window much more as I remember it. It does illustrate the extent to which adjusting verticals can affect the proportions and perceived height of the subject!

I wonder if there was any reason for photographing this close to the window, at your widest angle? Further back at 35mm would have produced a more natural look.
banehawi Plus
16 2.2k 4138 Canada
25 May 2015 3:22PM
HOW you straightened the verticals Jasmine, might have affected the aspect ratio?
dudler Plus
16 1.2k 1665 England
25 May 2015 3:46PM
It's the perspective and the crop that seem to me to need attention, Jasmine: Moira's mod sorts everything, elongating the image, and cropping to the altar rail.

Your work on the window to balance exposure seems to me to have worked very well indeed: I'll leave others to sort out if the perspective issues are the result of your balancing, or have resulted from a freak accident!
LynneJoyce Plus
12 22 101 United Kingdom
25 May 2015 4:42PM
Mod added to adjust the perspective. I didn't crop its height because I guessed that you wanted that amazing ceiling to be part of the interest in this shot.
xwang 11 56 8
25 May 2015 5:20PM
Thank you for all the comments. Perspective wasn't the issue that I intended to discuss, but obviously it became an issue. We'll deal with it later...and I'll upload the original shot for you to have a look and it's easier to see where it's from....
Quote:.. rather than producing an HDR image, you used layers to extract the best from each image into a final image.Do I have it right? Im not really clear on the selection tool and what you did.
Quite right, Willie. Thank you for the comments.You knew that I'd spent so many hours in the contrast strong conditions tried to get a good exposure of the 'dark corner', and also not to blow out the high light. Camera's range can't cover, either HDR or layers merge is a solution. We had known the HDR's problem, forget about it for a bit. Merging this kind of detailed photo is not easy,unlike landscape, it's too much fiddling work. I just realized that how easy it could be done with selection tool, since I don't know much about PS. If you think, with your eagle's eye,Smile, this image can stand up your scrutiny, I may adopt this method further...
Selection tool is very easy. Selected the high light (window) part, save it, and feather&smooth it, a large number, in this case, it could be 30 pixels, I can't quite remember, it doesn't matter, it also depends on the individual image, I think. Click layer mask, I got the most of the bottom layer, the feathered part at the edge needed more brush work, so second time feathering. Used the saved selection, feather small amount of the pixels, might be 3..a few strokes with large brush on the window, job done!Grin Having written this part, I just wondered if this could be done by only selecting 3 pixels once... why did I do twice? Because it was trial and fail at that time.. eventually, it worked...Anyway, I want you to find out the flaws of this method..., Willie. I trust your eyeWink, and it is unbelievably easy.

Quote: I suspect that part of the problem is that you were not standing at dead centre

Thank you Moira for the MOD and research.
No, I wasn't standing in the centre. It was very busy that day, a lot of visitors, it was just a quick snap, and initially, as Lynne said: " I guessed that you wanted that amazing ceiling to be part of the interest in this shot." Yes, I did and I had a lot of it, but I couldn't 'have the cake and eat it' this time, so I had to crop some ceiling off.
Quote:How did you adjust the perspective?
Any tools in the 'box' comes handy. Skew, distortion,.. warp,...free transform..etc.

Thank you Lynne. That's beautiful...Smile, so clever.
Thank you Keith,and John for the helpful comments.
Thanks Nathan, Rob and Christina for your kind comments.
mrswoolybill Plus
13 2.1k 2229 United Kingdom
25 May 2015 5:25PM
Thanks for the feedback, Jasmine. However you approach this sort of task, I think the important thing is to always remember what the original looked like.

Moira
xwang 11 56 8
25 May 2015 5:31PM
Original has been uploaded. Can I ' have the cake and eat it'? Grin... as I initially thought, have more ceiling..
Thanks again.
xwang 11 56 8
25 May 2015 5:44PM
BTW, Moira. .
Quote:Haddon Hall is one of my favourite places in the UK by the way, I love the way it evolved almost organically over several centuries -
The reason that I went there again, is because of Amazon. They did a sale on Amazon, quite cheap..only 4.50. Amazon would find your computer locally. Maybe, it's not a bad idea to log in your Amazon when you want to go somewhere...That's why it was busy that day, I saw no cash taken at the ticket office that day...
ddolfelin Plus
8 103 3 Wales
25 May 2015 8:43PM
Lovely work.
25 May 2015 9:43PM
Nice work Jasmine!
Effrossini
25 May 2015 11:47PM
what a beautiful image with lovely light and wonderful colours, excellent capture, SmileSmileSmileSmile
BRITCHIE
banehawi Plus
16 2.2k 4138 Canada
26 May 2015 12:15AM
YES, it seems like it has good dynamic range.

Having seen the original, I wouldnt even attempt to straighten anything, just leave it as it is. Then do your thing with it. As Moira mentioned, further back, longer focal length, etc. This would really be a job for a tilt/shift lens at this distance. The original looks quite decent on its own too!

Its worked out ok, though I dont quite fully understand your technique; if it works, do it.

If I had two images where one had a good interior, and the other had a good window. I would drag the darker one on top of the lighter one and use a mask and a white brush simply to reveal the window.


W
xwang 11 56 8
26 May 2015 2:25PM
Thank you Willie for the MOD and ,
Quote:I wouldnt even attempt to straighten anything,...
I'll take your MOD.
Quote:As Moira mentioned, further back, longer focal length, etc.
, Yes, it's a good idea, I would have less distortion, but sometimes it's not practical, if there are some other visitors standing around and I don't have to the time to wait for everybody clears out, and sometimes there is always somebody around, ... of course, they have all the right to be there. In this case, I would have included somebody in my foreground. The reason that I took a careful photo of the Marble Effigy , because I failed to isolate the background.. there were too many people there, so I had to work out a different way to get a satisfying photo.
Quote:This would really be a job for a tilt/shift lens at this distance.
I did think about the tilt/shift before I bought this wide angle, the reason that I didn't go for tilt/shift is that I thought wide angle is more multi-functional, I don't need to keep changing lenses..if one day I take photography very, very seriously and building only... I would give a try of tilt/shift, and I will carry a tripod as well...Smile
Quote:If I had two images where one had a good interior, and the other had a good window. I would drag the darker one on top of the lighter one and use a mask and a white brush simply to reveal the window.
Yes, nearly the same method, Willie. I did the other way round. The theory is the same. As I said above, it is very easy to separate the landscape, unlike the windows, they have frames and shapes.. the problem is blindly apply mask and brush is very fiddling and time consuming. The most crucial part of layer mask is feathering and smooth the mask. I was trying to find a formula , but so far, I haven't found one. I'm sure that you can understand what I did, if I summary it simply. After putting the two images together, dark one at the bottom.
Use the magic wand tool to select the window some area.
Quick selection and Quick mask took to refine the selection.
Save the selection.
Refine the edge, select more pixels 30,40,60 smooth 30.. whatever depends on the image. (I wonder if this step can be omitted)
Click the layer mask. You may see most of of the bottom part of the window shows on the top image.
Click the saved selection, refine 2 or 3 pixel,with some smooth.. brush(black) finish the rest of the window.
You see it really didn't take much time..and that's why I wasn't sure if it worked or not..one can get a good picture within a few minutes..
Have I made it clear?Grin
Thanks again, Willie
banehawi Plus
16 2.2k 4138 Canada
26 May 2015 4:24PM
I woulnt consider a tilt/shift unless you did this for a living!


The lens you have is first rate.

W
28 May 2015 1:57PM
Hello Jas, I missed this one! What a beautiful image. I think my single brain cell would blow a fuse if I tried to understand all the very techie comments........ for me it is very beautiful and the lighting is excellent.
Lovely!
Dave Wink

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