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phil99 11 45 6 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 3:39PM

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8 Jan 2013 3:47PM
Super image, like the composition,
8 Jan 2013 3:50PM
I would say the comments & votes on here are perhaps a better judge than your average club judge. I have come across only a couple who give good constructive critique (rontear being one ) I personally like the space on the left which I guess is the suggested area to crop?
Humblebee 5 1 England
8 Jan 2013 3:51PM
Wow! What a powerful image, beautifully captured Phil, was a lot calmer when I was there earlier this year Wink ... Carol Grin
Nice shot
NDODS 7 5.1k 125 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 3:54PM
Judges can often be the cruelest of people. Go with your gut instinct whilst at the same time thinking about what had been said.

For me the image works exceptionally well as shown, however on the other hand I would also have liked to have seen more ocean to the left.

Regards Nathan GrinGrinGrin
Sezz 13 617 15 England
8 Jan 2013 3:54PM
I'm with Jennie, I've just viewed your previous version and like it slightly better for the extra space and the diagonal of the shoreline where the water meets the stone path! Superb work though - both! Smile
Congrat's for your GEA

Sarah *
IanBurton 8 81 7 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 3:59PM
Hi Phil, it's all down to personal taste but I do prefer this new crop as it works a lot better (IMHO) in connecting the right hard railings to the bottom of the frame and guiding the eye through the picture. Well done Ian.
NaturesHaven 6 283 6 England
8 Jan 2013 4:11PM
I like this very much.................GrinGrinGrin
Meheecho 5 275 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 4:15PM
I like the shot as it is--shows nature doing what it does
danbrann Plus
13 637 17
8 Jan 2013 4:16PM
In my opinion this one is better than the previous one and as usual the judge is correct. As you know Phil the judge is Judging it against others and has to justify why it doesn't win. One must also take into account is it being being judged in a beginners comp, an advanced comp, an inter club or a federation competition.
Whilst I like this better of the two the other should not have been slammed and I honestly thought the days of speaking harshly about images had disappeared from the judging circuit.
I think this revised image will do well in any competition.
LesF 11 182 9
8 Jan 2013 4:26PM
It's all subjective Phil, it was one judge/person point of view, I can see why he suggested cropping it but slamming it is another thing.
So long as your happy with it that's what maters.

LynneJoyce Plus
9 20 99 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 4:55PM
You have reinforced my determination never to join a camera club with this as well as helping me revisit the places I went to in my youth!!! Gorgeous image.
8 Jan 2013 4:57PM
Brilliant capture Phil,congratulations on your GEA..Lin
barbarahirst 9 27 12 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 4:57PM

Quote:You have reinforced my determination never to join a camera club with this as well as helping me revisit the places I went to in my youth!!! Gorgeous image.

totally agree with Lynne here,
tho' I never was therein my youth !!!!!
lonely_oryx 10 61 55 England
8 Jan 2013 5:02PM
Very dramatic
mrswoolybill Plus
11 1.2k 1913 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 5:03PM
Lovely composition plus a touch of serendipity - that more distant wave breaking far left completes the frame perfectly and balances the lifebelt bottom right.
And I'm with Lynne...
Sezz 13 617 15 England
8 Jan 2013 5:28PM

Quote:and as usual the judge is correct.
I don't think the judge is always correct, it's down to their personal taste and thoughts on the day. I've seen work in competitions get high praise indeed and others I thought very worthy get equally low marks.. It's always subjective!

Just had another look at the two versions here and I still prefer the original, the crop on this one just a little to tight for me.. but that's just me Wink
nonur Plus
9 17 13 Turkey
8 Jan 2013 5:41PM
I love both versions, Phil. Choose whichever you like best.Wink
sut68 14 2.0k 76 England
8 Jan 2013 5:52PM
Much prefer the original crop myself. This crop has lost that lovely lead from the bottom left corner created by the broken wave, this crop feels a little claustrophobic for me.
8 Jan 2013 6:07PM
Both work very well indeed. I feel a consensus view is far more useful than that of an individual as once you get beyond obviously problematic images (exposure problems, wonky horizons, poor composition etc) a judgement becomes very subjective indeed. The crop here does make the most of the railing as a lead line but then in your original the ramp and surf line also act as a strong lead. I might have cropped your original to the surf line so that it emerged precisely from the lh corner but that's really splitting hairs. For anyone to slam the original is just wrong imho. We can all fall into 'nice shot' mode but I feel that in the vast majority of threads people feel free to express their honest response. A shot that gains 87 votes is an excellent indication that you nailed it first time around.
JimL Plus
11 222 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 6:30PM
excellent image. well done
Jasper87 Plus
8 2.0k 150 England
8 Jan 2013 6:43PM
I've changed my mind twice already, Phil. You can make arguments for both versions but at the end of the day they're both strong images which ought not to be slammed at all.

8 Jan 2013 6:47PM
Still stand by my original thoughts. The original has that lovely lead in from the bottom left hand corner. I have heard some very mediocre comments on brilliant photos (to me) & seen some extremely mediocre images get 1st 's in club comps.
CDSINUK 5 223 England
8 Jan 2013 7:13PM
wow agree with all above, fabulous shot Smile
8 Jan 2013 7:54PM
Amazing!! Grin
achieverswales 7 8 101 Wales
8 Jan 2013 8:30PM
I like the cropped version Phil! Having been a photographic judge for over thirty years, twenty of these judging Professional Photographers work for their qualifications, I have found that if you please every photographer you are not judging correctly just pleasing the masses! A bit like this site at times with the vote for me and I vote for you culture, this site works best, as judges should do, give an honest opinion then advice on how to improve the photograph, from being a Professional photographer earning my living only from my photography! I had done very little landscape and no nature photography, as this was not my field to put food on the table for my family, since retiring and from joining a camera club and this site I have improved my photography, from not knowing what an Histogram was! I only had Hasselblad and Nikon manual film cameras as a pro! To winning a few club competitions from my new found knowledge and still learning and still taking advice from some awesome photographers on this site, I do think that a lot of judges are biased towards their preferred field of photography, we have to put up with this if photography clubs are to continue, there is now a great shortage of judges in the UK. Like this site Photography clubs get photographers together to get people out there taking photos and should not be ruled out by any one wanting to learn, last off Phil this would have from this upload a score of 19 out of twenty if I was the judge, not sure what score it achieved.


Eviscera 11 1.1k 149 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 8:44PM
And in imvho ,

That's the deflation of confidence or illusion of brilliance that camera clubs (and judges) infer on images.

Perhaps a crop between the two for a little more breathing room.

I would have dampened down the bright red distraction and cloned out the dog poo sign , to hold all the attention in the atmosphere , then chinned the judge if he was a traditionalist...

Its a fine lead and image.
tomcat 12 6.4k 15 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 8:45PM
For what my opinion is worthSmile, I find the sign a tad distracting
Just takes the Oomph of the image - IMHO of course PhilWink

Suehh 11 39 6 England
8 Jan 2013 8:49PM
I prefer the earlier version - more of a sense of scale and size - but both work very well.
Suehh 11 39 6 England
8 Jan 2013 8:50PM
PS - congrats for the GEA
mattw 14 5.2k 10 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 8:57PM
A judges view is just that - their own personal (hopefully considered) view.

Personally I think the crop here has improved the shot, as it has removed the empty space at the bottom, and thus give greater promanance to the building and wave. The railings with the orange life ring give a fantastic led in from the corner right up to the subject.
Eviscera 11 1.1k 149 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 9:21PM

Quote:The railings with the orange life ring give a fantastic led in from the corner right up to the subject.

No it doesnt, Its to close to the edge of the frame , allows the eye to settle in the wrong place and interferes with the enhanced light on the wall that compliments the natural geometric lead into the building.

Did your cam judge muse this Phil ?
fazzer 8 54 7 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 10:54PM
Both beauties Phil, i'm inclined to have just a tad more at the bottom of the shot (somewhere between the two ).....happy new year Smile
danbrann Plus
13 637 17
8 Jan 2013 11:09PM
Bloody judges... What do they Know?.I have just come back from my camera club and the Judge didn't have a clue...a bloody highly commended..I mean what good is that to anyone. I had the same pic on here and it nearly got a readers choice.
There is a lot more to camera clubs than competitions and our club in particular has some excellent photographers the top ones being women which is very refreshing indeed. I thoroughly enjoy the crack and looking at other peoples work.
Keep up the good work Phil. I think you produce excellent work but I do wish you would stop coming up to Northumberland and stealing our best images.
martin.w 16 516 22 United Kingdom
8 Jan 2013 11:57PM
LOL....some very different ideas about camera clubs Wink

I have been a member of mine for over 20 years and it hasn't done my photography any harm. I have pretty much the same experience as you, images that do well at the club die on here and the opposite is true of others....though not all the time of course. Me.....I also prefer the original.....though had I not seen it I could certainly live with this one Grin
Sezz 13 617 15 England
9 Jan 2013 12:05AM
Highly Commended, that's cool Danny Wink Great too that your camera club has more to it than competitions! I joined a club for the first time in September, the competitions are good and I'm doing extremely well at my first attempt but would like to see more hands on/tuition type of events at my club.. That aside I very much appreciate the time & effort that the judges put into the comp's, of course I value their opinion but I don't take it as set in stone otherwise I would have to try and emulate every image they gave a 20 to, where would the originality be then?

Phil's original image was/is extremely pleasing to the eye, he captured it like that and presented it as such - "go with your gut instinct" as Nathan said. I am going to stick with this for CC competitions Smile

S x
Davesumner 11 28 300 Australia
9 Jan 2013 5:53AM

I haven't read any of the other replies but I have a lot of experience with camera club judges and if the UK one's are anything like the Aussie judges, take no notice. most camera club judges are so full of technical bullshit they forget to look at the images artistic merit at all. Why on earth would you crop that image?

For e.g. at my local club someone had entered an image of a golfer on a green with all the trees behind them had been pruned right down to the trunk. Not a great image but the image was intended as a bit of fun. The image was titled 'No Birdies Here' and the judge completey missed it.

Look for yourself HERE

I rest my case, so keep going with the image and treat camera club judges with the contempt that they earn themselves.

9 Jan 2013 11:04AM
I Think It's great even if the judge said he did't like the red life belt. Have you tried HDR ??Wink
phil99 11 45 6 United Kingdom
9 Jan 2013 11:34AM
Brilliant David just love that comment. Will give it a go when next there with my camera (NOT) . I seem to have stirred up a hornets nest re . judges though
mattw 14 5.2k 10 United Kingdom
9 Jan 2013 12:32PM

Quote:No it doesnt, Its to close to the edge of the frame , allows the eye to settle in the wrong place and interferes with the enhanced light on the wall that compliments the natural geometric lead into the building.

I just say it as I say it, and I'm sorry if my opinion differs from yours.

the railings are as close to the edge of the frame as before, but now leading in from the corner just feels more comfortable for my eye.

As for 'allows eye to settle in the wrong place' - i don't understand this, as the railings still lead into the same place. The building, the wave smashing into the sea wall and the lovely light on that sea wall are all larger and more prominent in the frame.... so surly that helps?
TrevBatWCC Plus
9 12 12 England
9 Jan 2013 3:35PM
I really liked the original, Phil - comparing this cropped version and toggling between the two, I think I prefer this, but there's nowt wrong with the original though! Wink
Trev Smile
Fefe Plus
6 23 31 United Kingdom
9 Jan 2013 4:06PM
Cripes......................... what a cafuffleTongue
I am sayin nowtGrinGrin
except I think a combination of both................
Excellent captureSmile
I like both,both for what it is,if it appeals to me I like them that what they are for me that is what it's all about, first like it yourself then if anyone else likes it well that's a bonus, I like them, very good captures indeed.

AnnJ Plus
6 5 Scotland
9 Jan 2013 6:17PM
Wonderful crisp image, well seen and taken. Stick with your instincts. Ann.
Dinky65 5 1 United States
9 Jan 2013 11:40PM
Great shot.Wink
benjita1 5 2 United Kingdom
10 Jan 2013 8:32PM
This is a cracking image!! Well captured in my opinion! Well Done!
11 Jan 2013 1:20PM
Superb and dramatic image. Like the cropped and uncropped versions. Decided to award a UA. Nice work!
annettep38 Plus
6 218 40 Costa Rica
15 Jan 2013 8:21PM
A fantastic splash on a spectacular waterfront ? Can't see how a judge could nag about it!

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