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St Oswalds - Hartlepool

By DaveRyder  
A church for Sunday.
Taken a few days ago while wandering around the area of St Oswald and it's neighbour the towns Mosque.

A HDR merge of 3 shots in Affinity, sky replacement and exposure corrections in Luminar, plus a little touch of dramatic tone filter.

Using a MFT 14mm focal length I've then tried to balance the lens distortion corrections as best I could.
This angle would have been impossible from further away unless I was stood on the rook of the Mosque.

Your thoughts on any improvements to the inherent lens distortions would be appreciated

Tags: Olympus Church Architecture Hartlepool Tamron

Comments


mrswoolybill Plus
13 1.8k 2148 United Kingdom
9 Feb 2020 10:59AM
Thanks for explaining what you did, and the circumstances for the shot. I know that corner, space is very limited!

It would be really interesting to see your merged HDR without the perspective adjustment - did you save that? You can add it as a modification.

My immediate thought on opening this was that it did not look 'right'. I like the fact that you did not correct the upright lines to vertical - that would look unnatural and top-heavy, particularly when the image is taken close up. Converging verticals convey height, domination. But the slant on the right is much greater than on the left. Look at the lines at the centre of the frame against the grid, that's where verticals need to be true whatever they are doing elsewhere in the frame. You'll see the problem!

I have had a go at producing something that sits more comfortably for my eye. I added space on the left, skewed bottom left ou until the central vertical was true, then used perspective control to reduce the extent of the convergence. That left a small white triangle to clone in.

I also added a bit more space at the top of the frame, where the spire is scraping the edge. Again it looks more comfortable to my eye.

Just mechanical adjustments, I have not touched other processing. Though I do see scope for a graphic-looking b&w…
Moira

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mrswoolybill Plus
13 1.8k 2148 United Kingdom
9 Feb 2020 11:07AM
B&W now uploaded - worked in Nik Silver Efex, with the contrast and structure sliders pushed up a bit and darkening on the yellow channel. For me this conveys the masonry better...
DaveRyder Plus
5 3.8k 2 United Kingdom
9 Feb 2020 1:27PM
Thank you Moira, the lamp post moving vertical as a guide has greatly improved what I was trying to do.
Sorry no didn't keep the original, it was horrid.
My first attempt had the spire looking like it was falling forward.... Blush

As a little home work (as the weather is horrid) I'll try playing to recreate your results.

Thank you for your time and input.
mrswoolybill Plus
13 1.8k 2148 United Kingdom
9 Feb 2020 1:43PM
Thanks for your feedback. Just for reference, I added 100 pixels to the left and 50 to the top. Scale up for the full size file...

Best not to use a street lamp for a reference point when checking verticals, they are rarely straight. I went by the windows. A building is more likely to be vertical, though this is not guaranteed...
dudler Plus
16 1.0k 1575 England
9 Feb 2020 1:52PM
Hmmm...

Really problematical, I think, correcting for architecture with a wide-range zoom. But it's not too bad at all, and though I don't know the location, I do know the feeling that the perfect shot needs access to somewhere you can't get. Though it could be an interesting exercise to see if the imam would let you onto the roof (or somehwere halfway up, ideally) to get a shot that the vicar will appreciate!

I've had a play with skewing this - let me know what you think! I reckon the 20mph sign is a lost cause, and has actually been bent...

I've removed some sort of mark just to the right of the top of the tower, and the 'road narrows' sign on the right, because it was annoying me.

Ideally, I think I'd like a less in-your-face HDR look. I shall see if i can tone it down to match my taste...

Ambitious and worthwhile!
DaveRyder Plus
5 3.8k 2 United Kingdom
9 Feb 2020 2:03PM

Quote:

I reckon the 20mph sign is a lost cause, and has actually been bent...




Correct on that one John.

Many thanks for your input and mods.
Helpful as always.
banehawi Plus
15 2.2k 4084 Canada
9 Feb 2020 3:01PM
Before you start to apply lens correction, theres some things to do.

First, ensure the centre if the image is precisely vertical, - it about 4 degrees off here. Its best to have the centre straight, and any leaning at the sides. Look closely at the spire roughly centre at the side, - its quite tilted and doesnt look right.

Then using the crop tool, pull the 4 sides up and out to make a white canvas around the original; this ensures that theres space for anything, like the top of a spire, to move into when correction is applied, rather than being sliced off.

Using the centre of the image as a guide, I got it vertical, then cropped, added in missing sky due to rotation, and slightly skewed the left side (tower) outwards. The road, bottom left is very rough as there very little original road left for cloning.


Done in the mod. The result shows theres still a very slight convergence, which I think works.



Regards



Willie
dark_lord Plus
15 2.4k 621 England
9 Feb 2020 3:33PM
Two things came to miond when looking at this.

First, the odd perspective.
The verticals look ok on the left but way out on the right. Wideangles do exaggerate this effect and a slight tilt or twist can be awkward to correct for.
Moira's right in that 'full correction' also looks unnatural - with a tall building close to we expect to see some convergence, but equal amounts either side.
A good guide is to ensure verticals in the centre of the image are vertical to start with before applying any skew or perspective control which may necessitate a rotation.

Second, the HDR look.
The lack of shadows and the fact you replaced the sky says to me it was overcast to begin with. The scene would, I guess, have had a reasonable contrast range that the sensor could handle easily so I see no reason why HDR processing was needed.
Certainly the result here looks flat like a cardboard cutout and a boost to Contrast is needed.
I think avoiding the HDR route would have saved time and effort at the taking and processing stages, where it's of no benefit.

It's always a nuisance when you can't get back enough but here's a thought, and it's prompted by the fact the very top of the tower clips the top of the frame.
Rather than take one landscape format image of the whole church, take three or four portrait format shots with good overlap and stitch them together as a panorame. The result won't be a panorama in the sense of a letterbox image, but the principle is the same.
With your camera held vertically, you should be able to get the whole height of the building in and keep the sensor parallel to it thus avoiding (or at least reducing) perspective issues.
And if you still want or need to do HDR, take three expposures for each portrait frame. Combine them so you have three panoramas with different exposures to use as your HDR start images.
DaveRyder Plus
5 3.8k 2 United Kingdom
9 Feb 2020 6:47PM

Quote:
Rather than take one landscape format image of the whole church, take three or four portrait format shots with good overlap and stitch them together as a panorame. The result won't be a panorama in the sense of a letterbox image, but the principle is the same.
With your camera held vertically, you should be able to get the whole height of the building in and keep the sensor parallel to it thus avoiding (or at least reducing) perspective issues.




As we used to say at work, a second set of eyes offer a different perspective - quite literally in this case Smile

DaveRyder Plus
5 3.8k 2 United Kingdom
9 Feb 2020 6:49PM
Thanks to Willie and Keith for your time and comments.
chase Plus
14 1.4k 295 England
10 Feb 2020 11:21AM
Some good critique and mods here, I have nothing to add really, all been said.
Getting the verticals straight would have been my first concern and I would have been tempted to remove the 20mph sight as it looks as though someone has hit it rather hard and bent it permanently.
GeorgeP Plus
12 57 24 United States
21 Feb 2020 2:50AM
I find a problem in this Gallery - by the time I check it out, folks have commented and moved on. So, sorry for the delay in this comment.

The shot of a solid place of worship caught my eye. However, the colours reminded me of all those Victorian buildings after they have been sandblasted to remove the ravages of time. I am sure it is accurate but it doesn't ring true. However, that B&W mod by "mrswoolybill" does capture the place beautifully. Here we have an architectural study that works. (as always, IMHO).

Sometimes, though we have all of those millions of colours, the 256 shades of grey are all that are needed for a great image if the subject is right. You chose that right subject.

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