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Good try and mono would work, but you have a very heavy 'flat' conversion where brighter with high contrast would suite rather better. You need to use the channel mixer or equivalent in your software to get the amounts of red, green and blue in the conversion that give the tones you want. Direct auto conversion, or shooting mono in the camera, rarely give the best result.
Also, a bit of space on he left to move the figure just fully into the fame.
Paul
Also, a bit of space on he left to move the figure just fully into the fame.
Paul
Quote:Good try and mono would work, but you have a very heavy 'flat' conversion where brighter with high contrast would suite rather better. You need to use the channel mixer or equivalent in your software to get the amounts of red, green and blue in the conversion that give the tones you want. Direct auto conversion, or shooting mono in the camera, rarely give the best result.
Also, a bit of space on he left to move the figure just fully into the fame.
Paul
i didnt auto converted
It doesn't seem unreasonable to make the light flat, when the mood of the person would be so low...
I really wish that the frame included all of the figure (he/she looks partly cut-off on the left). And I think there's too much elese, competing on the right hand side of the frame.
I've done a crop, and darkened the midtones further.
I really wish that the frame included all of the figure (he/she looks partly cut-off on the left). And I think there's too much elese, competing on the right hand side of the frame.
I've done a crop, and darkened the midtones further.
Assuming that this started as a colour image converted subsequently to b&w, I would dearly love to see the original - could you upload it please, either as a Version or as a Modification? And can you tell us how you produced the conversion?
It's one of the strangest b&ws I have seen! Almost everything - concrete, bricks, clothing, skin - falls within a very narrow range of greys, with some strong dark shadows and a few bright but almost random highlights. I would, for example, expect the concrete to be much lighter than the brickwork.
I like the fact that we cannot see a face. Apart from that my feeling is that the figure is too far to the left in too broad a frame. An accumulation of detail actually reduces the impact, I would go for a tighter crop. But I would like to have the original file to work on...
Moira
It's one of the strangest b&ws I have seen! Almost everything - concrete, bricks, clothing, skin - falls within a very narrow range of greys, with some strong dark shadows and a few bright but almost random highlights. I would, for example, expect the concrete to be much lighter than the brickwork.
I like the fact that we cannot see a face. Apart from that my feeling is that the figure is too far to the left in too broad a frame. An accumulation of detail actually reduces the impact, I would go for a tighter crop. But I would like to have the original file to work on...
Moira
I feel this ought to tell a story, but somehow it just doesn't come out. I can't even make out what is behind the fence in the recess, and that is attracting my attention more than the whole picture.
If your intention was to show a dirty, rubbish filled, run down street, the mystery of the figure detracts from that. Why are they looking at it? Why sit there? Why is it so untidy? Mild mystery perhaps, questions but no explanations.
The flat conversion could really do with some drama adding... Dramatic light and higher contrast conversion would help give it some "oomph", but I'm not sure colour wouldn't be better for this one, perhaps muted a bit to give a slightly seedy, gritty feel. As it is, nothing stands out as a definite subject.
Settings?...I'm guessing it was pretty dark....I'm also guessing you wanted it darker than this though, but it has exposed as if it was daylight, rather than the dark of the title. Everything else is just about covered above, re composition etc.
I think for this picture to succeed, you need to bring something more out of it. The figure, the hole in the wall, or the environment, one of them needs more emphasis depending on what you are trying to say, and needs giving more prominence in the frame.
Nick
If your intention was to show a dirty, rubbish filled, run down street, the mystery of the figure detracts from that. Why are they looking at it? Why sit there? Why is it so untidy? Mild mystery perhaps, questions but no explanations.
The flat conversion could really do with some drama adding... Dramatic light and higher contrast conversion would help give it some "oomph", but I'm not sure colour wouldn't be better for this one, perhaps muted a bit to give a slightly seedy, gritty feel. As it is, nothing stands out as a definite subject.
Settings?...I'm guessing it was pretty dark....I'm also guessing you wanted it darker than this though, but it has exposed as if it was daylight, rather than the dark of the title. Everything else is just about covered above, re composition etc.
I think for this picture to succeed, you need to bring something more out of it. The figure, the hole in the wall, or the environment, one of them needs more emphasis depending on what you are trying to say, and needs giving more prominence in the frame.
Nick
Check out the original!
The original is very, very yellow. probably sodium lighting. High ISO and long exposure too. The original is still rather brighter than your conversion however you did it and, for me, it is much too flat. You may have let the heavy yellow cast overly effect the conversion.
Tried a mod. Yellow easily dealt with. Used B&W converter in CS3, but channel mixer just as good.
Paul
Tried a mod. Yellow easily dealt with. Used B&W converter in CS3, but channel mixer just as good.
Paul
Thanks for uploading the original. OK, I see your problem...
You will be aware that the colour original has various issues. To start with it is underexposed. Then you have a White Balance problem, there is a massive yellow colour cast.
B&W conversion may seem like a magic cure-all for colour problems, but it is not - because the colour cast has caused that flattening of tones.
I hope that Willie (banehawi) will get here because he is the White Balance guru, and he will be able to give the advice that you need. But I have worked a bit on the original. The principle is - get the image as near to 'right' as you can before attempting a b&w conversion. Then go back and check the light afterwards because a perfectly balanced colour image will not necessarily convert directly into perfect b&w.
What you can do will depend on the software that you have available - I am using Elements 11 here. I am uploading three Modifications. The first is a fairly crude attempt at improving the colour and exposure. I lightened the image first, then used Remove Colour Cast, and clicked on one of the pieces of white paper to get some true white. Then I boosted saturation on reds and blues, and lightened yellows. Finally I did a bit of dodging and burning at very low exposure settings, to get some contrast into the concrete and brickwork - they shouldn't all be the same tone!
I then made a b&w conversion, adjusting the colour channels very slightly to boost those reds and blues. Afterwards I made a further Levels adjustment.
Finally a square crop which I think includes enough of the scene to convey the message but gives the figure a more satisfying presence in the frame.
All of this took a couple of minutes, less time than it took to type this...
Willie will do better!
Moira
You will be aware that the colour original has various issues. To start with it is underexposed. Then you have a White Balance problem, there is a massive yellow colour cast.
B&W conversion may seem like a magic cure-all for colour problems, but it is not - because the colour cast has caused that flattening of tones.
I hope that Willie (banehawi) will get here because he is the White Balance guru, and he will be able to give the advice that you need. But I have worked a bit on the original. The principle is - get the image as near to 'right' as you can before attempting a b&w conversion. Then go back and check the light afterwards because a perfectly balanced colour image will not necessarily convert directly into perfect b&w.
What you can do will depend on the software that you have available - I am using Elements 11 here. I am uploading three Modifications. The first is a fairly crude attempt at improving the colour and exposure. I lightened the image first, then used Remove Colour Cast, and clicked on one of the pieces of white paper to get some true white. Then I boosted saturation on reds and blues, and lightened yellows. Finally I did a bit of dodging and burning at very low exposure settings, to get some contrast into the concrete and brickwork - they shouldn't all be the same tone!
I then made a b&w conversion, adjusting the colour channels very slightly to boost those reds and blues. Afterwards I made a further Levels adjustment.
Finally a square crop which I think includes enough of the scene to convey the message but gives the figure a more satisfying presence in the frame.
All of this took a couple of minutes, less time than it took to type this...
Willie will do better!
Moira
There is an isseu with the white balance, or colour tone, of the original. As mentioned, its very yellow, and that influences how the mono conversion will look.
Its difficult to actuall determine what white balance should have been. There is some real yellow in the scene, and whatever lighting is used, - assuming street lighting, has caused the yellow, but I find it strange the camera didnt try to perform any correction at all. Unless this is actually the correction the camera made, reacting to a very blue light, and got it wrong.
Either way, set the camera to the type of light you are shooting in for white balance, dont leave it to auto.
Uploaded mods, and a mono created from a colour with less yellow.
Regards
Willie
Its difficult to actuall determine what white balance should have been. There is some real yellow in the scene, and whatever lighting is used, - assuming street lighting, has caused the yellow, but I find it strange the camera didnt try to perform any correction at all. Unless this is actually the correction the camera made, reacting to a very blue light, and got it wrong.
Either way, set the camera to the type of light you are shooting in for white balance, dont leave it to auto.
Uploaded mods, and a mono created from a colour with less yellow.
Regards
Willie
Willie
I didn't use any effect, what happen is that i took the shot in a street that has this type of light, and i try to reduce the iso, but the image gets too dark. i do not like this yellow light, but i think that the scene could overshadow that defect.
Diego
I didn't use any effect, what happen is that i took the shot in a street that has this type of light, and i try to reduce the iso, but the image gets too dark. i do not like this yellow light, but i think that the scene could overshadow that defect.
Diego
