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By Kali
Another soothing delightful image for your bedrooms walls.Enjoy!

Tags: Specialist and abstract

Voters: wolf666, Tooth, sjatkinson and 1 more


Tacobumpy 19 58
9 Apr 2006 3:52AM
Disturbing. What's it trying to say? I'm not sure I get it
draxwayze 17 74
9 Apr 2006 4:15AM
Subject disturbs, but the photography is ok.
Kali 15 75
9 Apr 2006 5:00AM
As with all art, Only you can know what it says to you, it is not trying to say anything,you are merely interpreting it, and that would be consistent with your unique history and experiences. What is a picture of a robin trying to say? ''im a robin, tweet,tweet?

Im suprised how resistant a bunch of artists (for photographers have fought long and hard to be recognised as artists) are to anything remotely challenging. Im not trying to make a beautiful image here, but something to think about.
shane 16 7 United Kingdom
9 Apr 2006 5:13AM
Kali...You response is one of arty nonesense.
The photo is nothing if not ugly and probably offensive to some people. To put a razorblade into a dolls hand and cover her in blood looking stuff then photograph it is at the very least ODD!!!
My advise is to stop being arty for the sake of being 'arty' and take some more good photographs.
you are obviously a good photographer as shown in previous work.

There, I have said it!

Doclassie 15 1.1k England
9 Apr 2006 5:21AM
Agreed. Stop it with the arty farty ambiguous batting away of straightforward questions.

Why did you choose to set it up? There must be a reason as to why you chose this subject and title. Instead of spouting rubbish why not actually explain your motives for a change? That would be far more interesting and would generate a decent response instead of confusing people.

Incidentally, this image doesn't offend me. Its not at all poweful enough to. I just get annoyed by your refusal to answer questions. Makes me think you're just another boring, self obsessed student who is wasting time and talent.
kokobrown 16 1.9k Scotland
9 Apr 2006 6:20AM
Im quite surprised at the response here.

What is photography if not our own interpretation of the world and those around us? It obviously means something to Kali, otherwise why put in the effort and have the guts to post it on here for all the world to see?

Personally the image makes me feel a little unsettled and does nothing for me, but Im not about to slate someones work simply because its too "arty"
wolf666 15 497 England
9 Apr 2006 7:05AM
Love ot Kali, very dark I think the lighting could be a bit stronger to make it pop out but its a great idea.
Tacobumpy 19 58
9 Apr 2006 7:39AM
Kali, I do not agree with the knockers of your image. I think that there is no reason for the image to be here. This is a site for photographers and photographs and this is a photograph and by that virtue alone it has every right to be here. If people do not like it, then tough. I prefer a photo with a twist and a message and do not necessarily appreciate the vast amounts of pretty sunsets that get placed in the gallery, but there you go.

If you wish to be arty, then that is fine, but as an artist you soemtimes have to explain the message you are trying to get across. Technically, I think that your image is great; well composed, well lit, well focused etc.

Artistically, I do not get it, do you have a message or are you just trying to shock for the sake of it. A photograph of a robin is a snapshot of someone's life and probably nothing more. On the other hand, a photograph of a robin cut up with a razorblade would perhaps have a message.

If you are going to take what you percieve to be photos of artistic value and not be able to say what you are trying to get project then it will be easier for people to knock you. Here I do not get your message and would like you to explain it if you are so inclined. I am interested. If you do not wish to, then how can I appreciate your art fully. I am asking nothing more than your lecturer will be asking when you come to your critque at the end of this project, if it were one of your degree projects.
Kali 15 75
9 Apr 2006 8:14AM
Hi guys,

When anyone starts to push the boundaries in any artistic discipline, reactionary stuff like this is absolutely par for the course. I expect that as an artist, and would be frankly a little disgruntled if I didnt get a least one 'Arty farty rubbish' in my comments book!

Of course such a risposte says nothing of the insultee and a rather too much about the insulter, but lets not dwell on that.

I understand that you are frustrated that I dont explain my reasons for my work, but some work really defies explaination - dont look for my words, im not a writer, Im a photographer, look at my image and try to read that.

I know its not a conventional photograph, not here to delight your senses or fish for those little blue hearts -(I should be quite offended!) but its here to unsettle, disturb, rock your world a little. Well im sure you cant wait to reassure me about that, its a figure of speech, y' know? Im sure your'll all get your beauty sleep tonight!

For those of you who think Im still spouting rubbish, I really do understand. But it is my view that logical reasoning as a basis for aesthetic judgement discounts the perceptual experience of the viewer.

Id really encourage you to read about art and aesthetics - it really is facinating.

Some great books as primers are;

Theories of Art and Beauty which is edited by Robert Wilkinson

Philosophical Aesthetics - an introduction. edited by Oswald Hanfling

Art; context and and value, edited by Stuart Sim

These books are all very accessable and can answer alot of your questions (which have been asked of controversial artists since Platos day-who thought all art should be banned anyhow, so enuff Plato!

Anyway no hard feelings at all, Im actually pretty chuffed with my responses all in all. Peace guys!
Kali 15 75
9 Apr 2006 8:21AM

You are a light in the dark. May your seed be spread far and wide and the hairs on your toes ever grow longer.
andmolliethedog 15 120 11 United Kingdom
9 Apr 2006 9:00AM it a well taken photo?not at all I like it..its worth a look from the thumbnail..not sure if I do or dont..sort of leaves me in a couldnt careless mood..short lived interesting image,like the use of the thumbs up...meaningfull? not to me,but im not the artist..winner in this catoGORY...flames work,take a look and see how it can be done with effect and lasting quality.
Kali 15 75
9 Apr 2006 9:48AM
Just had alook at flames work, I like it very,very that black eye portrait. Her work has real style.She dosent say anything about herself though,im assuming shes a student too from the way she is working. Definately a class act and a master of phtoshop...I struggle with my P shop,I have ADHD and they always go so fast in class, I get left behind and I so hate that.Hate keep drawing attention to myself by whinning for helptoo. Gotta invest in some 1-2-1 tuition..its only 300 quid a day.....:O
keithh 17 25.7k 33 Wallis And Futuna
9 Apr 2006 12:10PM
One could always see it as a photographic illustration of child self harm....but just to stir it up a only works when the blood looks like blood and there needs to be a cut.

To really kick out you have to wear boots not slippers.
Kali 15 75
9 Apr 2006 12:17PM
Its really annoying cause I spent ages cutting her up. The print looks loads better,it hasnt reproduced well here, it looks a bit flat, and yeah im disappointed that you cant the painstaking cuts..mostly on the upper arm,can you see at all?

I like your comments about wearing boots not slippers! wheres my eighteen holers? look out world!
MarkyMarc 15 498 Canada
9 Apr 2006 12:51PM
I've seen a bunch of your stuff and I can appreciate that you want it to be controversial and that you want people to draw their own interpretations from it. One thing that I think detracts from this immensely is that a lot of your stuff comes with a 'sorry' disclaimer. You don't explain what the shot is supposed to mean yet you do explain that it may offend some people and you're sorry if it does and that it's supposed to be avant garde. To me that takes away from the whole point of making controversial stuff in the first place. To me it's saying 'I tried to make a hard hitting image but I didn't really mean it". Like Keith said, if you're going to be kicking then put on some boots.

I'm not trying to put down your work, just giving you some feedback on the impression I get from it.

Tooth 15 5.8k 227 Ireland
9 Apr 2006 1:17PM
It's the old trick of the circular epistemological fait-accompli. Yes Kali, you're at college, so you know what that means. If it provokes a response it's art,:if it provokes a negative response, it's even better art. Therefore if you post something which people don't like, and they react against it, it is immediately legitimises it as good art, even if the reason they reacted is because they saw it as bad art. So you can't really go wrong, can you. And you keep posting and saying "hmm, maybe I shouldn't, well maybe for a while", and "go easy on me, I'm a student". But then if people went easy on you you'd be annoyed because your art wasn't provocative enough.

My personal thoughts? - it's technically very proficient and you undoubtedly have a talent for photography. What does it say to me apart from that? that someone has taken a photograph of a doll holding a razor blade covered in fake blood in an attempt to provoke a response from me. Paradoxically, the ability to genuinely shock requires an amount of subtlety which you will probably develop as your studies progress. To paraphrase and build on Keith's analogy, if you're going to wear boots, they have to be proper Doc Martens and not something from Lidl.
Good luck with your studies, and best wishes (and I do genuinely mean that)

Kali 15 75
9 Apr 2006 2:12PM
I put disclaimers on work that I feel is controversial as I feel its just a considerate thing to do.But you could be right,maybe I'll forget that atitude maybe you are right its being apolgetic for my work and I shouldnt do that.
Okay, this is what this image is about. Countless children are apallingly abused in young childhood.about the time they would own dolls such as these. Many Of these kids go on to be 'cutters' I dont mean cutting their wrists to commit suicide, but cutting their bodies to to feel physical pain that will blot out the mental pain By depicting the doll cutting herself, I wanted to say 'wake up! this is happening to so many children' I thought the message was quite plain really and am suprised that so few have grasped it. Some of you say im being gratuious, some say im not kicking hard enough.Im interested in all your points of veiw. My Tutor (who never says he likes ANYTHING) said I should enter some competitons so I thought im going right somewhere.I want to work on the image more and take on board your advice,be less apologetic and kick harder.I think my message is worth that. Really good points, thank you.
belerophon 18 156
9 Apr 2006 2:30PM
enters the debate---its crap
Kali 15 75
10 Apr 2006 12:11AM
piss off then.
Doclassie 15 1.1k England
10 Apr 2006 3:05AM
Thankyou for finally putting up some form of description/explanation. I think to put an image up and refuse to say what your moivations were is either rude, or hiding the fact that you don't have any reason other than trying to be controversial.

I personally think you'd do well to post a pic, write what it means to you, and then open it up for debate. That would make for a far more interesting discussion than you (tentatively) posting a pic and then batting away any questions about its creation/inspiration with wooly replies.

All the best...... and do keep posting :O)
Kali 15 75
10 Apr 2006 4:34AM
I still defend my right (and it IS my right) not to explain my images!!!. would you go up to Bob Dylan and ask him to explain Subterreainian Homesick Blues? (love to see you try) Or Hurst his sheep? Sorry if this sounds snotty but when you consider art you have to learn to read in a different way - You read the godamn IMAGE!!! have you NO imagination?

If I were to explain everything behind my images the would absoluteley no bloody point in making them!
I would be expressing myself in words, I would be a bloody writer!

My Tutor never asks me to 'Explain myself' either.
This is such an ancient debate about whether an artist should or should not explain their work, cant believe its neccesary with a group of artists.

Let me ask you something. Ever watch telly? eastenders, inspector morse, there are COUNTLESS disturbing unexplained scenes. do you write to the BBC demanding an explanation everytime you dont understand the signifigance of a disturbing scene? its all art!

There is a very simple point im trying to get across here....its very frustrating.

You can sit and hone your insults as finely as you like, I dont really care, id be more worried if there was no response at all. As 'Tooth' says artists are generally happy if they get fantastic OR furious comments. But he is wrong when he says you cant go wrong, you go wrong when no one says anything, when there is no debate. (Gonna leave me alone now? biggest insult there is!)

One of the major functions of art is to stir up debate.If it stimulates, fires people up then up, makes them forget about them selves for a moment then that really elevates us/them. Its one of the major points of art, whether it be good or bad, its what makes us different ( i didnt say better) from animals.

If you are really interested in in art and ethics, then read some of those titles I quoted above. They really are captivating, and remind us what a valuable thing art is, and how poor we would be with out it.
Doclassie 15 1.1k England
10 Apr 2006 4:59AM
Its good that you are so passionate about what you do. Although your standpoint is very one sided. As for seeing disturbing scenes on TV or whatever, there's always motivation, be it plot or scene setting. Even seen Irreversible? Has two of the most graphic, violent scenes you'll ever see in cinema. Is it a horror movie? No. The scenes are completely in context and are rellevant, if not vital, to the plot. Same goes for Passion of the Christ. Has a horrendously drawn out purging sequence. again it needs no explanation or justification. We are clearly seeing the director's reasoning played out for us on screen........... and it is here that your work falls down. You post images with no hint of motivation other than to stir up controversy whilst hiding behind the "art" banner without ever giving us an insight into your motives.... which, like it or not, interests people.

And please, don't patronise me about art. I don't claim to be any sort of expert, however I do work as a proffesional artist and work with some of the most talented artists in the industry. I have plenty of imagination and am payed to used it daily thankyou very much. As such I can see that your opinion - although valid - is very, very misguided.
Kali 15 75
10 Apr 2006 7:25AM

The whole point of a piece of artwork is to use another language to say something that is difficult to express in words.Then trying to explain it in words negates the whole reason for it. If you dont speak my language, just move on. It really doesnt matter,it obviously wasnt meant for you.
mikesavage 18 299 2 England
11 Apr 2006 3:29PM
When I first saw the picture, the subject of young people self-harming came to mind instantly, so it wasn't that difficult to interpret. The lighting's very good too. Strange how the doll seems to be giving the thumbs-up sign. Click!
Kali 15 75
11 Apr 2006 8:42PM
Jeez Mike, thanks! I just couldnt believe the message wasnt plain, and was just flabbergasted by these demands for motives. i can understand if if people dont like my work- hey no problem - I hate robins! (actually , I adore robins its just ive seen enough robin images to last several lifetimes!)
sjatkinson 15 1
11 Apr 2006 11:55PM
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Albert Einstein
MikeBonsall 14 474 3 Guernsey
12 Apr 2006 6:30AM
kali, I'm sure most people looking at this image would make the connection with young people self-harming themselves. The picture is about as subtle as any run-of-the-mill government public information film you're likely to see on TV.

However, you did (in your first reply to comments) try to make out that this 'is not trying to say anything'.

I can understand your reluctance to explain your work, just as I can understand a song writer's reluctance to explain their lyrics. Ambiguity in art is a powerful thing when allowed to work on the imagination of the viewer/listener.

However with this work I can't see any ambiguity or mystery. No amount of arty posturing can cover up what is (in my mind) a fairly average, sixth-form style attempt to shock and provoke a response
Kali 15 75
12 Apr 2006 8:19AM
Rather a successful one you have to admit....well it squeezed one out u ! Anyway im only just out of sixth ; )

Why sj atkinson, you are a gent and a scholar ; )
Pete Plus
19 18.8k 97 England
12 Apr 2006 8:58PM
What a great range of thoughts in debate on this. That's what I had always hoped the gallery comments included, so well done for creating part of my dream Smile
In terms of the shot, I may be wrong, but wouldn't it look better if the surrounds looked like they suited the subject? At the moment, to me, it looks very much like a studio set up shot of a doll. The lighting's not harsh and the background's clean. A more challenging angle would also add to the power of the shot too.
Kali 15 75
12 Apr 2006 11:43PM
Those are great Tips Pete, thanks. Im going to try what you have suggested today. This has to be a 'studio' set up but a more challenging angle is a really good Idea, really good.This brief has to be in on wednesday and I stil have soooomuch to do,so i will probably continue the work as a private thing. Am talking to 'THE' Pete? wow I guess I must be. Im glad that you are happy with the discussion, its definately going to be printed off for my workbook, I think it makes interesting reading.
leesearle 17 35
23 Apr 2006 1:37AM
I like the hair cut.

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