Back Modifications (4)
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a rose of any colour is still a fose

By unk001  
more from my backyard just looking at light... I have been criticized for using b&w for flowers however for me sometimes the colour of any flower can distract from the simple delicate beauty the object.
This is the same rose as yesterday, as they don't last long, enjoy (or not Smile) c

Tags: Flowers and plants Black and white

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9 May 2017 2:03AM
And, for many,,black and white is the essence of photography.


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dudler Plus
16 987 1537 England
9 May 2017 7:37AM
You're absolutely right, Charles. Sometimes the shape and tones are sufficient, and anything more is excess.

My first mod tries to lift the tones a little, brightening without destroying the softness - I deliberately didn't go for a full tonal range, but for soemthign softer.

The second mod then crops for an off-centre composition. Central composition can, though, be quite regal, calm and assured, and that maybe fits the mood better?
mrswoolybill Plus
13 1.7k 2099 United Kingdom
9 May 2017 9:11AM
I love flowers in b&w, they have a remote, aloof feel for me - very Great Garbo, 'I vant to be alone'. And it concentrates attention on form, structure, graceful lines.

It works best with white or very pale flowers, which retain a purity in mono. This was yellow, which is sufficiently pale. Darker flowers can look muddy, except for dark red roses which can create a really fabulous black if there is some light touching them.

This does need more light, for a more 3-dimensional feel. If you look at the histogram, the graph falls back to the baseline a long way before the end, indicating a lack of really light tones. And this needs the lighter tones, for a sense of life, vitality.

I like the falling diagonal, it gives a sad, rather elegiac feel, but I would place the flower higher in the frame.

I shall see what I can do...
mrswoolybill Plus
13 1.7k 2099 United Kingdom
9 May 2017 9:18AM
Modification added, I wanted to brighten the flower but keep the sense of mystery.
banehawi Plus
15 2.2k 4051 Canada
9 May 2017 12:52PM
The yellow rose of Arizona.

Mono looks very good; if shooting a record shot of a flower to add to a catalogue, for example, it has to be done in accurate colour and detail, but apart from that, anything goes.

I did play a bit with a mod, mainly to remove some barely visible background in the black, and a crop with the rose glowing a little.

Check your title!


unk001 5
9 May 2017 4:32PM
willie never noticed the typo...I'll blame a sticky keyboard...everyone's mod's are great and quite quote PJ from the other day "a little fussiness" I need to be a little fussy and slow down during the processing. Kinda makes me think about my darkroom days when I would spent a great deal of time just to get one good print... sometimes slower was better...

dark_lord Plus
15 2.4k 600 England
9 May 2017 7:09PM
There are areas of photography where colour is essential for flowers, as Moira mentions for record, and then there's illustration. Colour is very effective for mood, too. And today colour is much easier, calibration and profiles aside.

But conversely mono can work well too, in an art style approach. You do need distinct shapes, lines and textures though for it to be ffective in mono, but tht's true of any good mono image, for example not all landscape or architectural imges translate well into mono (and ome look better, let's be honest).

Success (appeal) also hinges on your conversion to mono too, as some methods offer greater control and more options so you need to be aware of those and select carefully. Just as you'd choose colour filters for mono film and choose paper grade and exposure in the darkroom, so too to step back and consider your approach digitally - ultimately quicker but no less challenging.

So it depends on subject, lighting and intended use.
unk001 5
9 May 2017 7:17PM
conversions aside when I have the time I still prefer film. Its a mater of spending the time to get it right..something I never seem to do, spend the time....
pamelajean Plus
13 1.2k 2096 United Kingdom
9 May 2017 7:20PM
I like the composition, Charles, and it's very much like my modification of your previous upload.

I see some extremely good black and white flower pictures, but feel that the subject should lend itself to that treatment. This rose, although yellow, doesn't stand out too well from the leaves when in mono because the tones are alike.
Given the choice, I would prefer your colour version.

When you eliminate colour, you are left with form, shape, texture, tones, light, patterns, and these should be considered when choosing a subject for black and white, so that their interest replaces that of colour. HERE is an example of a flower with beautiful form, texture and light. Of course, it also works well because it's a white lily in the first placeSmile.

When you remove the colour from an image you instantly lose one element that the viewer relies on to interpret your picture. For me, the colours of flowers give me a sense of their "personality", their essence. Also, most flowers are tender and vulnerable, soft and dreamy, but mono doesn't convey that for me, unless it is done with creativity and sensitivity.

The greatest black and white images by the best photographers have been pre-visualised that way, i.e. in black and white. Recognising potential shots can take practice. Being able to ‘see’ how your final shot will look is a key skill.

So, turning a colour shot to black and white can work extremely well, and practicing with some of your old shots would be a good exercise, giving you an idea of what looks good and what doesn't.

paulbroad Plus
12 131 1286 United Kingdom
9 May 2017 7:44PM
If you are shooting for a client or brief, you use the process that suites that brief. If you are shooting for yourself, you do as you please. A good quality full toned mono image with crisp focus can work well with artistic plant images.

Unfortunately, your image is a bit flat and muddy with compressed tones. Not sure if it's conversion or due to original under exposure. Yo need a brighter crisper image to give strength and impact. Even soft dreamy images must have tone and not look flat.

I would be cropping somewhat tighter on the bloom itself.

unk001 5
9 May 2017 10:14PM
I don't really have any clients.... If i did i would hope they would by the image for what it was and not what they thought it should be.. my reply would (as always) be get a camera and do it yourself, With a few expletives deleted here... a critique is not closely related to criticism.. at least in my humble opinion.

However Paul you always give me something to think about..Wink. c
unk001 5
9 May 2017 10:21PM
Pamla: your points are very well taken and I have done the transfer from a color image to black and white many times however I like trying to get a good black and white using the b&w settings on the camera... I have been shooting a tea Rose today (cloudy and raining) it's red...Red rose or any other red flower is a hard image to get right.. I will upload the results tomorrow.... be warned I am not happy with either... c
unk001 5
9 May 2017 10:24PM
PJ..Ps sometime I think my lack of detail is the lense...
paulbroad Plus
12 131 1286 United Kingdom
10 May 2017 1:45PM
You may be missing my point on clients. If you do not supply work to the client brief, you will not have many clients. In a sense, we become your clients by commenting on work that you choose to submit. Just satisfying yourself is another issue entirely although technical quality should still mean something.

Everyone sees things there own way and the beauty of a section such as this is that you can get a number of opinions. Analysis of those opinions is what will tell the author the general opinion.

dark_lord Plus
15 2.4k 600 England
10 May 2017 4:40PM
Paul makes a good point, it's the prson you're shooting for that matters. If that's yourself then you become the client and if you're happy then fine. If not that's where we can try and help, with varied suggestions some of which you'll be in more agreement than others.

A noble effort to try and get good mono in camera but using software is so much better. Camera settings are much less flexible and offer little control. If you like and want good mono software conversion is the only way to go.
unk001 5
10 May 2017 5:05PM
Keath...It is sometimes hard for me to agree with Paul... However most time he has a point...the one thing I like about film is that it is a slower process...It is where I started over 40 years ago... so did everyone else.
What i like about the Critique team I get honest comments and suggestions that help me look deeper into the processes. I value this more than when I Show my work..

mrswoolybill Plus
13 1.7k 2099 United Kingdom
11 May 2017 8:07AM
I think Paul's use of the term 'client' was a distraction because it brings in commercial connotations. A better word perhaps would be 'audience', because we all want to see our own work at its best, and we want to communicate what we feel to others. And it's important to remember that other people don't automatically read our minds, we have to communicate actively if we want others to share what we see.

When I take photographs for local organisations I resolutely refuse to take payment because that leaves me working on my own terms. Amateurs have that freedom, it's something to cherish.

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